Rifles - Opinions wanted
- Thread starter Big Fin
- Start date
BuzzH
Well-known member
Fin,
Another thing I forgot to ask. Just as an example, when I draw my Montana Bighorn permit this year, and assuming you would agree to film it...would I have to use a rifle that a sponsor provides?
Reason I ask is because there are likely only 2 rifles that I'd ever use to hunt a bighorn in Montana with and unless your sponsor is winchester, and they're fond of the model 70, then I'd bow out. Not that the rifles I would use are more accurate, are made of better materials, etc. but because the rifle I would use, would be a part of a very special hunt.
Some things just arent negotiable to me...that be one of them.
Another thing I forgot to ask. Just as an example, when I draw my Montana Bighorn permit this year, and assuming you would agree to film it...would I have to use a rifle that a sponsor provides?
Reason I ask is because there are likely only 2 rifles that I'd ever use to hunt a bighorn in Montana with and unless your sponsor is winchester, and they're fond of the model 70, then I'd bow out. Not that the rifles I would use are more accurate, are made of better materials, etc. but because the rifle I would use, would be a part of a very special hunt.
Some things just arent negotiable to me...that be one of them.
IdahoBugler
Well-known member
I've got the same thought as most on here. I would go with the custom rifle sponsor all the way. Most OYO hunters have the gear they want already and know what they can afford. I started with a tasco, then brunton and now Swarovski's. It could work the same way with a rifle.
If you like the product and think it will benefit the OYO hunter then go for it. Like Spitz said you might have people looking at your leupold bino's and thinking what a waste of money. I can do the same thing with my Tasco's.
Shoot the rifle from the possible sponsor... If you like it sign with them.
If you like the product and think it will benefit the OYO hunter then go for it. Like Spitz said you might have people looking at your leupold bino's and thinking what a waste of money. I can do the same thing with my Tasco's.
Shoot the rifle from the possible sponsor... If you like it sign with them.
Oh yeah, just wait and see. I was thinking that our goal of everything under 200 yards is what is going to be the downfall of our show, so now, it must be 600+ before we consider it. If we are too close, we will drop back to artillery range.
Not to worry. As most have seen, our footage is pretty "up close" and personal.
I guess I never thought of custom rifles as just being long range bombers. I always think of them as durable, reliable, and usually lighter in weight and hopefully a little more accurate if the operator can perform. And given how poorly I usually perform, any "long rangers" probably best stay away from our show, as the rifle's image is only as good as my shaky hands.
I never have been interested in long range shooting at animals. Kind of fun at the range, but too risky in the field, and not why I hunt.
Oak will testify that if I was into long range shooting you would see a 2010 episode where a net B&C antelope bites the dust at 350 yards. Just not our style. And, the footage at long distances sucks, plain and simple. And for our show, I want good footage.
Yeah, sometimes we do take a longer shot, but we don't make that the premise of our hunting. Much prefer those 120 yard shots where you can see the animal blink just before he runs off. If it is a longer shot, it is because we didn't feel we could get the cameras/hunter any closer.
Each show has a different idea of what will be their "Schtick." Some by selling long range shooting, others by selling anything that someone will pay them to talk about, others that think we are dumb enough to believe that "I wouldn't have killed that buck with my XYZ doodad," etc.
The beauty of our show is that we promote a concept, not personalities, not a specific device we are trying to sell, but hunting as most of us do it. And regardless of what product we are using, the product integration is way more natural and delivered at a higher level than any other show out there. Sounds boastful, but there is a reason we don't have to pimp out the products we use. People see them being used, "in the heat of battle" and know that they work.
I am thankful that I don't feel compelled to insult the intelligence of our viewers by standing there and proclaiming that my Buck Bag Seer Salt is what allowed me to kill Gomer. If it gets to that point, I will pack up the tent and call it good.
When it comes down to it, we probably know I could go downstairs, grab my Grandpa's old .30 Remington, a handful of Kleanbore ammo, and kill a buck within 100 yards using those open sights. And I would be able to see him at that distance no matter what I used for optics, and could probably get him out of the woods without a pack and if pressed, could gut and gill him with my multi-tool, But, we strive to use equipment that gives us more confidence/comfort, with confidence/comfort being a good part of what helps me know I will be able to close the deal when the time calls.
To me, it is about using equipment that can do the job we ask of it. The better the value equation, the more I like it. And after that, it is who recognizes the value of promoting non-guided hunting as an important part to the future of hunting and wants to be associated with the concept.
I am probably over-thinking this, but value you all your opinions. Keep them coming.
We are also talking to some well known "off the shelf" firearm brands. But, in many instances, "off the shelf" brands demand the most "in show promo" and that is part of why some of them are not in this show.
And if I end up not signing a rifle sponsor, life will go on. We will still kill critters, even if we have to get within 200 yards to do so.
Given the proposed scenario, I don't think we have to worry about the answer, but here it is. Once you sign a sponsor, they expect you to use their products. And, they have no tolerance for the products of their competitors.
The companies we work with put a premium on natural product integration, not the :30 second ads or the "in show promo." So, if they saw a competitors product being used, it would be a big deal.
And this is why they provide the product. They tell you what of their products they think is the best fit for the message of the show. You agree and sign, or disagree and continue working with others you think would fit. And when the time comes, all people in the show are using that product.
So any of you who might want to be filmed, best check out the sponsor list beforehand and decide if any of them put you over the edge.
Oops, I really want to film that hunt, come next October, and I just know you are going to draw, so I better get a proposal to them this week. Actually, they are much more of an ammo company, and given our relationship with Federal, probably would not waste the time to answer us.
Anyone else want to have their sheep hunt filmed. Buzz just crossed himself off that list.
B
Bio Bo
Guest
I think each OYO hunter utilizes the best equipment he has on hand at the time, and he upgrades when he has a chance, and can afford it. I doubt I'll ever get any closer to a custom rifle than the one I'm refinishing the stock on right now, but that doesn't mean I don't appreciate them. If this old Springfield didn't work so well for me, I'd be looking to upgrade myself.
However, like several have said already, the essence of the show is to do it on your own and to do it your way... however that may be. Most of us take a lot of pride in being able to find the game and close the deal ourselves. That's why they call it hunting. To me, being guided or sitting in a box blind watching a feeder is shooting. The equipment I use to do it is secondary.
But I wouldn't get mad at anybody for shooting a custom rifle, if it worked well for them. But I might if they bad-mouthed mine for not costing as much.
A good idea for such a custom rifle company might be to develop a less expensive custom rifle for the average OYO hunter. And let OYOA's input and field trials be a part of the process. I expect we all might have to have one or two of those...
However, like several have said already, the essence of the show is to do it on your own and to do it your way... however that may be. Most of us take a lot of pride in being able to find the game and close the deal ourselves. That's why they call it hunting. To me, being guided or sitting in a box blind watching a feeder is shooting. The equipment I use to do it is secondary.
But I wouldn't get mad at anybody for shooting a custom rifle, if it worked well for them. But I might if they bad-mouthed mine for not costing as much.
A good idea for such a custom rifle company might be to develop a less expensive custom rifle for the average OYO hunter. And let OYOA's input and field trials be a part of the process. I expect we all might have to have one or two of those...
sweetnectar
New member
Is the money worth binding yourself? If yes, then do it. If no, then renegotiate.
the nikster
Well-known member
I've got 3 rifles I use intermittantly. Sometimes I get to remembering the old times and bust out the 30-30, other times I get waxing nostalgic and break out the '06, most of the time I take the 7mm for a drive.
One's a Marlin, one's a Remington, one's a Savage.
If my GREAT BUD Randy said to me he'd like to film this years Alaska caribou hunt but the catch was I had to use his custom rifle from ABC manufacturing......I would do it.
The difference being it's not a once in a lifetime deal like the sheep would be. I could still take 'Ol Bessie' along and warm her up off camera.
Fact is, I think I'm a fence sitter on this issue.
How many misses from this year can you attribute to 'faulty firearms'? Leave the $$ on the table.
Would the extra cash benefit the show in the long run? giggle all the way to the bank!
Clear as mud? Good luck, any decision you make will be the right one, just don't look back.
One's a Marlin, one's a Remington, one's a Savage.
If my GREAT BUD Randy said to me he'd like to film this years Alaska caribou hunt but the catch was I had to use his custom rifle from ABC manufacturing......I would do it.
The difference being it's not a once in a lifetime deal like the sheep would be. I could still take 'Ol Bessie' along and warm her up off camera.
Fact is, I think I'm a fence sitter on this issue.
How many misses from this year can you attribute to 'faulty firearms'? Leave the $$ on the table.
Would the extra cash benefit the show in the long run? giggle all the way to the bank!
Clear as mud? Good luck, any decision you make will be the right one, just don't look back.
OYOA wouldn't exist if it turned into one of those long range shows. I'm not sure if my dad would ever manage to kill anything at those ranges, even with the most expensive rifle and best optics known to man. On the upside, he could become Federal's in-field munitions tester.
But in all seriousness, I wouldn't worry about the show changing much because of a sponsor. One focus will still be ethical hunting, which includes only shooting when confident of the shot and the shooter's ability.
Personally I think the impact of this sponsor is going to depend greatly on how the product is integrated. Currently we avoid the "I use [insert brand and product here] because it is the only way to kill [animal of choice]" form of product integration. We'd like to keep it that way.
Would TV ads and ads on the website for a custom rifle company make the average person turn away from OYOA? I'm not so sure either way. In one aspect I think it is just another ad and people realize that the show needs sponsors to make money, on the other hand, there are those who would take sponsorship to mean "I need a lot of money to hunt on my own," which is not what we are trying to promote.
On your own hunting is kind of like driving: An old Ford pickup can get you from point A to B, but there are those who use a Ferrari to achieve the same result. Both vehicles serve the same purpose, but it is a matter of preference as to which method any given person will choose.
rosco
New member
Buzz made a good point about a hunter other than yourself being filmed. It may limit your options, cuz some guys wont borrow a rifle. I know I wouldn't.
BuzzH
Well-known member
I probably grow too attached to some of my rifles, but confidence in equipment that has served you well over the years is hard to detach yourself from. The scratches, dings, and dents are all stories to me.
Any of my other hunting equipment I could care less...my rifles are a bit more personal.
Any of my other hunting equipment I could care less...my rifles are a bit more personal.
hardscrabble
Active member
This would be my take on this subject. Don't go crazy with a 4-5K rig. Stick with a rifle that is obtainable to the majority of your veiwers. I know I would never drop the cash on a super expensive rifle but I would spend aroud $2,000. It would be hard though to retire a firearm that has been good one.
If you think they are a good company and make reliable equipment then go for it. Reliability is the most important issue IMO.
Drake4
Well-known member
I think if you were able to get a custom rifle compnay to sign up for a sponsor..that would be fantastic. I shoot a custom rifle, but don't consider myself a long range hunter. I've shot 3 elk since I had my rifle built..all 3 were under 50 yards. I do have the capability with the rifle/scpoe setup to be accurate at 600+ though.
Another thing to think about..In order to obtain the best performance out of a custom rifle, hand loading is the way to go. That's not saying that a custom rifle won't shoot factory loads better than a rifle off the shelf, but I would bet that the majority of people who shoot custom rifles also re-load themselves. Could be wrong on that though. Do you think that is contradicting yourselves at all, being sponsered by a custom rifle manufacturer plus factory loaded Federal ammo?
Another thing to think about..In order to obtain the best performance out of a custom rifle, hand loading is the way to go. That's not saying that a custom rifle won't shoot factory loads better than a rifle off the shelf, but I would bet that the majority of people who shoot custom rifles also re-load themselves. Could be wrong on that though. Do you think that is contradicting yourselves at all, being sponsered by a custom rifle manufacturer plus factory loaded Federal ammo?
elkfarmer
New member
I guess as long as the "Theory" behind OYOA doesn't change, then go for it. I love watching the show and i am tired of the shows that always tell you "ABC.. is the best bla bla bla...." I know if it was me, part of the deal would limit the times you would talk about thier rifles. They might be great, but I don't want to hear how this one 1 product made your hunt.
Your show really stands out from the rest and i would like to see it stay that way. But there are bills to pay which we all understand.
Good luck and stay true to your own beliefs..
Your show really stands out from the rest and i would like to see it stay that way. But there are bills to pay which we all understand.
Good luck and stay true to your own beliefs..
csutton7
Active member
Big Fin---Ok I was going to ask what Buzz asked about what rifle do guests use---their own or the sponsors??? You didn't specifically answer that and maybe you don't know right now, but if you were to film me on my hunt and these guys want me to use their gun, they better by god get me that gun months ahead of time so that I can get accustomed to it and hopefully provide a scope and ammo for it---not like showing up at camp and here's your gun now let's sight it in and go!!!!!! And do I get to keep the rifle?????......chris
csutton7
Active member
Quote:
Originally Posted by BuzzH
Reason I ask is because there are likely only 2 rifles that I'd ever use to hunt a bighorn in Montana with and unless your sponsor is winchester, and they're fond of the model 70, then I'd bow out. Not that the rifles I would use are more accurate, are made of better materials, etc. but because the rifle I would use, would be a part of a very special hunt.
posted by Big Fin:
Oops, I really want to film that hunt, come next October, and I just know you are going to draw, so I better get a proposal to them this week. Actually, they are much more of an ammo company, and given our relationship with Federal, probably would not waste the time to answer us. Anyone else want to have their sheep hunt filmed. Buzz just crossed himself off that list.
ok you lost me with that last statement Big Fin--can you clarify?? are they an ammo/custom rifle shop????? if so I think you are going to have a conflict of interest at some point if they are an ammo/custom rifle shop with Federal-----anyway if you can clarify that would be nice
chris
_________
Originally Posted by BuzzH
Reason I ask is because there are likely only 2 rifles that I'd ever use to hunt a bighorn in Montana with and unless your sponsor is winchester, and they're fond of the model 70, then I'd bow out. Not that the rifles I would use are more accurate, are made of better materials, etc. but because the rifle I would use, would be a part of a very special hunt.
posted by Big Fin:
Oops, I really want to film that hunt, come next October, and I just know you are going to draw, so I better get a proposal to them this week. Actually, they are much more of an ammo company, and given our relationship with Federal, probably would not waste the time to answer us. Anyone else want to have their sheep hunt filmed. Buzz just crossed himself off that list.
ok you lost me with that last statement Big Fin--can you clarify?? are they an ammo/custom rifle shop????? if so I think you are going to have a conflict of interest at some point if they are an ammo/custom rifle shop with Federal-----anyway if you can clarify that would be nice
chris
_________
Devil Diver Down
Well-known member
Great conundrum, Randy. As a tv guy myself, I know what sponsors expectations can be as far as working the product into the show organically, and most importantly, how viewers respond to it (You all would be pretty surprised at the minor things people will take the time to email/call about!) Finding that balance, with a realistic eye toward the bottom line, can be awful tough.
I think it is somewhat risky in that some might view the show as getting more "high brow" and less "everyman." I tend to agree with most that OYOA is about the methods much more than the equipment, but since the basis of the show is that these hunts are something the everyman can do, using custom gear will distance certain folks. In other words, it's a tightrope.
I'd look at the 13 episodes you have roughed out for next season and see whether this sponsorship will dictate content decisions; how it will impact your ability and logistics to make those 13 hunts happen; whether going this direction will impact future sponsor possibilities should these guys disappear in the future; what potential changes are within your comfort zone; figure those things out and you'll have your answer. Signing on with them might have minor impact on the show & new direction isn't always a bad thing. Personally, I sure would hate for the show to change much, though.
Best of luck & remember: People wanting to give you $ is a good thing and means the decisions you've made to this point and your direction have been solid.
I think it is somewhat risky in that some might view the show as getting more "high brow" and less "everyman." I tend to agree with most that OYOA is about the methods much more than the equipment, but since the basis of the show is that these hunts are something the everyman can do, using custom gear will distance certain folks. In other words, it's a tightrope.
I'd look at the 13 episodes you have roughed out for next season and see whether this sponsorship will dictate content decisions; how it will impact your ability and logistics to make those 13 hunts happen; whether going this direction will impact future sponsor possibilities should these guys disappear in the future; what potential changes are within your comfort zone; figure those things out and you'll have your answer. Signing on with them might have minor impact on the show & new direction isn't always a bad thing. Personally, I sure would hate for the show to change much, though.
Best of luck & remember: People wanting to give you $ is a good thing and means the decisions you've made to this point and your direction have been solid.
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noharleyyet
Well-known member
More importantly, how much you gonna discount that certain .257 roy to make room in the toy box?
fowladdict
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2005
- Messages
- 2,545
Part of the fun of the hunt is the actual preparation for the hunt. Shooting your bow/rifle all summer and getting comfortable with with your equipment as if it were a part of you is half of the fun. To me at least. Unless you can provide whichever rifle the hunter will be required to shoot well ahead of time I say it is not worth it. Lets say you were able to provide each hunter with said rifle, what if they hated it and refused to shoot it out of fear of missing or wounding an animal because they never could get comfortable with it? Then what? Do you have to scramble and find another hunt to film? I've read several posts on here of guys getting excited about a new rifle only to sell it because it doesn't satisfy them. Some may not agree with me, but the rifle is one thing the hunter needs to be the most comfortable with.
Randy, equipment is a personal choice and no way effect the OYOA message. I think most here realize what you use on TV is as much an advertisement as a choice. Go with what you feel is a good for you right now, but stay away from products that you feel are so crappy they make a hunt miserable or unsafe.
As far as a lope @ 350 yards being poor footage, I got a lot of good feedback on how cool it was to see that vapor trail bury into my WY lope this fall. If the weather conditions are right it could make good footage, and realistic of what happens a lot of times on lopes at least. If you sign on with a custom gun maker, it might make good advertisement for that company to smoke a lope @ 400yrds
As far as a lope @ 350 yards being poor footage, I got a lot of good feedback on how cool it was to see that vapor trail bury into my WY lope this fall. If the weather conditions are right it could make good footage, and realistic of what happens a lot of times on lopes at least. If you sign on with a custom gun maker, it might make good advertisement for that company to smoke a lope @ 400yrds
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