School/Mass shootings what's the answer?

[shootbrownelk]

I've followed this from the beginning and notice a lot of people like to give up the AR platform to save lives. That is great but the big picture is the problem, why these young adults want to do this ? Honestly a shotgun with an extended tube made to kill snow geese would have a worse outcome than an AR. So we ban the AR then the next few years its a semi shotgun then its who knows what ? I really don't know the answer but banning the gun is not. Teachers CCW would be a good start as was said earlier and not putting the person all over the news maybe would help. I hope someone smarter than me figures out a solution without our loss of guns or we "our great grand kids" will be hunting only archery.

Or the new Mossberg shotguns with 10rd. double stack magazines. Much faster to reload than a tube fed. I suppose that they would be the next guns some guys would want to be classified type III.

 

[Tiredofthebickering]

Once again you're basically comparing ballistics to ballistics. Not mind set.
So to take the other side of your comments, you would prefer that they sit there and have nothing but maybe a door between them and the shooter. No resistance. And you have solved or deterred what? Nothing.
Most people who chose to carry take it seriously. Elks made some very salient points: Not all teachers should carry, but just like a cross section of society some are comfortable doing so and competent and would be a very good deterrent. Nobody needs to know who is carrying at school, just like on an airline. I used to sit and try to figure out who the air Marshall were on the flight.
Elks made several very good points and so far all I have seen is criticism of them. We are far enough down this thread it's time for some solutions.
How many police officers have accidents with firearms and we just pass it off. How many guns have swat and police lost?
How many kids are going to be standing, still alive between a shooter and a teacher with a firearm, or anywhere near them for that matter? From what I have seen they are either shot, running the other way or hiding

I'll take someone like elks w/ concealed carry in a school any day. Because right now it's just a free fire zone and every nutcase knows it. This may not stop completely but you will put and serious damper on once a couple of them get shot by someone on school grounds.

I've told a few friends that I'd be happy to see a level II CCW style permit that requires +/- 40(?) hours of classroom instruction, detailed background search (similar to level III weapon purchase requirements), and annual renewal with a fee ($500?). BUT anyone who holds that permit can conceal carry in all 50 states, in schools, banks, etc. What do y'all think about something like that? I would imagine that the teachers that genuinely believe themselves to be competent would be willing to go through the extra effort.

 

[ringer]

2011 there were 12664 murders in the US. 6220 with handguns, 1694 with knives, 728 with fists, 496 with hammers and 323 with rifles. Every time there is a mass shooting people blame guns and gun owners when 90% are law abiding. Hysteria always takes the day and the media and politicians manipulate the narrative. Maybe raise kids better, stop making video games where they are holding a full auto M16 and killing everything in sight. Take them out to the woods and show them what it is like to kill a living thing. Turn them in if they are nuts and get them help. Same old, same old, have to do something. We have over 300 MILLION guns in circulation and not that many are actually registered so there will always be a way to get one.

 

[Tiredofthebickering]

Or the new Mossberg shotguns with 10rd. double stack magazines. Much faster to reload than a tube fed. I suppose that they would be the next guns some guys would want to be classified type III.

Both of y'alls comments make me think of this video, lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jafkVM-jnbE

Any joker could learn to quickly put 10+ rounds in a row on target with an AR style weapon with a little training. It's not quite as easy with a 12 gauge set up to kill snow geese. Plus, that shotgun is going to beat the snot out of the shooters arms and shoulders by the time they hit the 100 round mark. And how easy are they to conceal in a duffel bag?

It has been said already, if we, as sportsmen and responsible gun owners, don't come up with a viable solution the decision is going to be made for us. And I thinks it's likely going to happen soon.

 

[elks]

It was stated that teacher do not want to CC... As a response, yes most would not want to, but in every school I have worked there are a couple who shoot regularly, a couple who train and a couple if given the option would do it in a heart beat. As a teacher, I would love the option. Does not mean i would carry everyday, does not mean I would have to have it, but that I could if i wanted. Note there are states and school districts where it is and can happen. I would willingly take what ever courses necessary and do what ever training is needed... I know at least 4 others in my school who would also gladly step up for this option.

 

[elks]

As for mental health resources. Our system is completely broken. In a longer post I pointed out the issue that we face... We have had students caught in the school doing meth. They get arrested and taken off to youth services, in less than 24 hours they have a court hearing and the youth services attend that meeting and recommend that the student be released with a ankle monitor because there are no beds at the detention facility.

So we are greatly lacking the detention and rehab facilities, even worse we are lacking any form of mental health. In my district we have a single district psychologist. 1 for 8 elementary schools 2 middle school and 2 high schools. It is not OK.

 

[Straight Arrow]

So we are greatly lacking the detention and rehab facilities, even worse we are lacking any form of mental health. In my district we have a single district psychologist. 1 for 8 elementary schools 2 middle school and 2 high schools. It is not OK.

That is completely unacceptable by any standards.

 

[onpoint]

Will the same gun owners/hunters who are opposed to any alteration(s) of our "rights":
1. Support higher taxation to provide more/better mental health services, jails, law enforcement, etc., - if not,
2. Will those same folks step up and get personally and aggressively engaged (gov't by the people for the people) in an effort to effect a change to our current local/state/federal gov'ts to see that our taxes paid are better utilized (read - more efficiently)?

 

[VikingsGuy]

I've told a few friends that I'd be happy to see a level II CCW style permit that requires +/- 40(?) hours of classroom instruction, detailed background search (similar to level III weapon purchase requirements), and annual renewal with a fee ($500?). BUT anyone who holds that permit can conceal carry in all 50 states, in schools, banks, etc. What do y'all think about something like that?

Uniform conceal carry should have some baseline standard for the primary license, seems weird that if one rural state decides a zero qualification, zero background CC standard would be binding on all others. Similarly, if one state goes to sheriff discretion only and that sheriff never grants, then you can't travel through that state without putting your gun in the trunk, doesn't seem right either. Probably time to adopt a drivers license approach -- states standards may vary, but all have some basic standards and then there is full reciprocity.

 

[BrentD]

It was stated that teacher do not want to CC... As a response, yes most would not want to, but in every school I have worked there are a couple who shoot regularly, a couple who train and a couple if given the option would do it in a heart beat. As a teacher, I would love the option. Does not mean i would carry everyday, does not mean I would have to have it, but that I could if i wanted. Note there are states and school districts where it is and can happen. I would willingly take what ever courses necessary and do what ever training is needed... I know at least 4 others in my school who would also gladly step up for this option.

I would not want to carry. I DAMN sure don't want to be expected to carry. If I was, I would want to be paid for the higher expectations and nuisance and especially for the liability (that's HUGE).

There is no reason teachers should need to be armed. That hasn't been necessary for the last several thousand years of civilization and should be less necessary now.

Whatever drives these kids to even think of committing such an act is the issue. Where that desire comes from needs to be addressed. You kill trees at the roots. You kill all social problems the same way, at the roots of the cause.

 

[Gut Shot]

I, for one, am not willing to give the government any more taxes, fees, fines, licensures, or bribes to keep my guns, whether or not they are semi-auto, magazine fed or otherwise. It won't make children any safer, won't keep a criminal from killing someone and it will never be enough for those who want to take rights given to free people by GOD. You folks preaching to make new gun laws are simply making criminals of innocent gun owners.

I dropped my two children off at public schools today. They will come home this afternoon safe and sound, without a worry about someone shooting them in their classrooms. Even they can understand that statistically they won't be killed at school.

 

[BigHornRam]

See something, say something.

http://missoulian.com/news/state-an...cle_1b5bfab8-d60d-5e47-9c7d-496baee114fb.html

 

[NoWiser]

I, for one, am not willing to give the government any more taxes, fees, fines, licensures, or bribes to keep my guns, whether or not they are semi-auto, magazine fed or otherwise. It won't make children any safer, won't keep a criminal from killing someone and it will never be enough for those who want to take rights given to free people by GOD. You folks preaching to make new gun laws are simply making criminals of innocent gun owners.

I dropped my two children off at public schools today. They will come home this afternoon safe and sound, without a worry about someone shooting them in their classrooms. Even they can understand that statistically they won't be killed at school.

There you go. Since, statistically,the chances of my children getting killed are miniscule, who cares. Never mind the chances of someone else's kid getting killed at school in the next year are pretty much 100%.

 

[onpoint]

Thank you, very much, for the answer Gut Shot.

 

[Gut Shot]

There you go. Since, statistically,the chances of my children getting killed are miniscule, who cares. Never mind the chances of someone else's kid getting killed at school in the next year are pretty much 100%.

And if it is your child who gets killed I'm sure you will feel better if his head is caved in with a hammer rather than being shot with a scary gun.

 

[tjones]

I dropped my two children off at public schools today. They will come home this afternoon safe and sound, without a worry about someone shooting them in their classrooms. Even they can understand that statistically they won't be killed at school.

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[Zach]

https://townhall.com/columnists/she...tm_medium=email&utm_campaign=nl&newsletterad=

Mental health plays a role in mass shootings, and this relationship needs greater exploration beyond the standard calls for increased funding. The suggestions of gun control, background checks, and increased mental health funding are technical fixes that will do little to prevent mass killings. That is low hanging fruit for politicians and talking heads. It’s easy to pick because it can be reached from relative safety at ground level. Suggesting bold, new solutions is politically and personally dangerous.

Interesting article, IMO, from the former sheriff.

 

[onpoint]

"....so states have greater flexibility in institutionalizing people before they kill".

The end sentence of the above article. Let's say states get that flexibility, enabling them to institutionalize more of these people (as well as screen more of these people in general).
This WILL cost money - govt's operate on this stuff - from taxes paid by citizens.

So, I ask you, Zach - will you:

1. Support higher taxation to provide more/better mental health services, jails, law enforcement, etc., - if not,
2. Step up and get personally and aggressively engaged (gov't by the people for the people) in an effort to effect a change to our current local/state/federal gov'ts to see that our taxes paid are better utilized (read - more efficiently)?

 

[Tiredofthebickering]

I, for one, am not willing to give the government any more taxes, fees, fines, licensures, or bribes to keep my guns, whether or not they are semi-auto, magazine fed or otherwise. It won't make children any safer, won't keep a criminal from killing someone and it will never be enough for those who want to take rights given to free people by GOD. You folks preaching to make new gun laws are simply making criminals of innocent gun owners.

I dropped my two children off at public schools today. They will come home this afternoon safe and sound, without a worry about someone shooting them in their classrooms. Even they can understand that statistically they won't be killed at school.

It's like I told my wife. I have to internally deal with the emotions that come with both of the FACTS below.

It is exceptionally unlikely that MY kids will ever be shot at or killed at school.

It is all but guaranteed that SOMEONE'S kids will be shot at or killed at school.

 

[VAspeedgoat]

Earlier in this thread I sated I was shocked by the lack of give a shit by some members and later changed it lack of empathy. I would like to officially change it back to being shocked at a lack of give a shit by some members.