School/Mass shootings what's the answer?

[onpoint]

It's like I told my wife. I have to internally deal with the emotions that come with both of the FACTS below.

It is exceptionally unlikely that MY kids will ever be shot at or killed at school.

It is all but guaranteed that SOMEONE'S kids will be shot at or killed at school.

I can guarantee that that's a conversation my father never had with my mother. The new normal, just keep building more caskets.
It's good to be an (relatively) old white dude with a bunch of guns and dead critters on the wall in a small western city with little worries about this kinda' shit...............

 

[Deleted member 20812]

https://townhall.com/columnists/she...tm_medium=email&utm_campaign=nl&newsletterad=



Interesting article, IMO, from the former sheriff.

And therein lies the million dollar question the sheriff broached but adeptly skirted. How much intrusion into the Constitutional rights of the mentally ill is acceptable in order to enhance the safety of society?

I have little trust in a process that may not have due process protections built in, particularly with the clown we have in the White House who thinks Putin is a great leader.

Impinging upon anyone’s constitutional rights is a HUGE issue, regardless of whether it’s my right to own an M4 or someone else’s right to live outside of institutional confinement because “they aren’t right“.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

I can guarantee that that's a conversation my father never had with my mother. The new normal, just keep building more caskets.
It's good to be an (relatively) old white dude with a bunch of guns and dead critters on the wall in a small western city with little worries about this kinda' shit...............

Trust me, your views on this change when you know the people in the headlines.

 

[onpoint]

Trust me, your views on this change when you know the people in the headlines.

You and I both know that...........

Thanks for including the rights of those in question. I considered including that as part of my above question(s) but figured I'd leave that out because more are probably frankly more concerned with their pocketbooks...........

 

[Zach]

"....so states have greater flexibility in institutionalizing people before they kill".

The end sentence of the above article. Let's say states get that flexibility, enabling them to institutionalize more of these people (as well as screen more of these people in general).
This WILL cost money - govt's operate on this stuff - from taxes paid by citizens.

So, I ask you, Zach - will you:

1. Support higher taxation to provide more/better mental health services, jails, law enforcement, etc., - if not,
2. Step up and get personally and aggressively engaged (gov't by the people for the people) in an effort to effect a change to our current local/state/federal gov'ts to see that our taxes paid are better utilized (read - more efficiently)?

1. In a previous post I said I'd be for an additional tax, but with the caveat that there be more oversight in the areas monies are being spent. What I believe are best methods of mental health services may not be the widely accepted methods by the masses.
2. Outside of being directly involved(working for , I think I'm engaged as much as possible.

 

[Sytes]

And therein lies the million dollar question the sheriff broached but adeptly skirted. How much intrusion into the Constitutional rights of the mentally ill is acceptable in order to enhance the safety of society?

The weight of the matter... Privacy Act vs Public safety. How many people with mental concerns will come forward to seek help if it may turn into a government record and potential loss of liberties...
There is a certain point where, if due to potential for immediate threat, a Psychologist is obligated to bring to Law Enforcement attention based on State law - which may vary.
The slippery slope...

 

[VAspeedgoat]

I do have a question about this thread. "Mass shooting what's the answer" is the title, yet when anyone has offered up a suggestion it hardly gets so much as a mention. The only exception has been mandatory carry for teachers. The discussion continuously goes back to ban or no ban. When even hunters only discuss gun control as the issue then it can easily be argued that that is the problem.

If guns are not the problem as many of us believe, then we should all try to focus the conversation on fixing what we believe is the problem. Or at least alternatives to reduce the incidence of mass shootings.

 

[Gut Shot]

Alright VAspeedgoat, I'll give a suggestion. America needs to start putting a Christian God first. Too much of this generation believes that truth is relative and there is no right or wrong. There are no consequences for people who are morally destitute. The traditional family has been destroyed and we have broken homes full of broken children. We've removed God from nearly every place in this country except the church, and something else has taken His place.

The country has been wallowing in its own debauchery for too long. We need to step up and let it be known that certain behavior is wrong and won't be tolerated. We need to tell our girls that it isn't OK to be a slut and that killing a child because she doesn't want the inconvenience of a baby is wrong. We need to discipline our boys and teach them what honor and responsibility are.

The country needs to set its moral clock back about sixty years.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Tangential to this, there is interesting research correlating the decline of the violent crime rate with the end of leaded gasoline. Basically, as leaded gasoline was phased out, the violent crime rate decreases. It's a correlation that is repeated globally and temporally. It's not considered the only factor, but the research strongly suggests that it plays a part.

Correlation does not properly suggest any causal connection (on any topic). Here is a great website to peruse when ever we feel compelled to buy into mere correlation - www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations. One of my favorites:

 

[Tradewind]

Earlier in this thread I sated I was shocked by the lack of give a shit by some members and later changed it lack of empathy. I would like to officially change it back to being shocked at a lack of give a shit by some members.

Unfortunately, Va speedgoat, you are correct. the complete lack of appetite amoung our 'group' to enact ANY type of deterrent at all in the schools is alarming and sad. Guess Buzz had it right in post #10, but I just did not want to believe it.

 

[NoWiser]

Alright VAspeedgoat, I'll give a suggestion. America needs to start putting a Christian God first. Too much of this generation believes that truth is relative and there is no right or wrong. There are no consequences for people who are morally destitute. The traditional family has been destroyed and we have broken homes full of broken children. We've removed God from nearly every place in this country except the church, and something else has taken His place.

The country has been wallowing in its own debauchery for too long. We need to step up and let it be known that certain behavior is wrong and won't be tolerated. We need to tell our girls that it isn't OK to be a slut and that killing a child because she doesn't want the inconvenience of a baby is wrong. We need to discipline our boys and teach them what honor and responsibility are.

The country needs to set its moral clock back about sixty years.

I guess that would explain why Australia has so many school shootings. Nearly 70% of Australians consider religion unimportant vs 35% in the United States.

 

[belshawelk]

Our local HS keeps the front doors unlocked. All others are locked from the outside. You can walk in the front doors and go down any hall without anyone even knowing you are there. Here is my solution if someone hasn't said it already as I cant read this whole thread.

- Lock all doors and post armed guards outside where you have to check in and show ID order to enter the school
- all classrooms lock automatically in case of shooting with emergency doors to the outside in every room.
- better background checks and a better job of law enforcement to follow up on leads.
- Social media needs to be monitored. Hate to say it but its where we are. When I grew up if you said something about a person you better be ready to defend it. Today kids say things on social media they would never say in person. I hate a discussion about monitoring but its where we are.

Today the USA Today had an article about to much masculinity in boys. Its actually the opposite. We have wussified boys. We have no discipline anymore and kids run rampant and tell their parents whats gonna happen. We didn't have shootings when I grew up ( class of 87). People respected people and guns.

 

[BrentD]

Unfortunately, Va speedgoat, you are correct. the complete lack of appetite amoung our 'group' to enact ANY type of deterrent at all in the schools is alarming and sad. Guess Buzz had it right in post #10, but I just did not want to believe it.

I have thought for a long time, that Buzz's conclusion might well be correct, or close, but that doesn't mean that I don't care. Quite the opposite. I'd like to see effective deterrents, but they come with tradeoffs and the balance of those tradeoffs has to be discussed and evaluated. I am somewhat doubtful it can be improved upon. I'm willing to listen, I just don't think it is a give that there is a "solution" per se.

 

[Gut Shot]

I guess that would explain why Australia has so many school shootings. Nearly 70% of Australians consider religion unimportant vs 35% in the United States.

And yet most Australians are Christian. There also aren't a whole bunch of mass murders in Japan. I'm worried about the culture in the USA not some foreign country I have no desire to ever live in.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

Alright VAspeedgoat, I'll give a suggestion. America needs to start putting a Christian God first. Too much of this generation believes that truth is relative and there is no right or wrong. There are no consequences for people who are morally destitute. The traditional family has been destroyed and we have broken homes full of broken children. We've removed God from nearly every place in this country except the church, and something else has taken His place.

The country has been wallowing in its own debauchery for too long. We need to step up and let it be known that certain behavior is wrong and won't be tolerated. We need to tell our girls that it isn't OK to be a slut and that killing a child because she doesn't want the inconvenience of a baby is wrong. We need to discipline our boys and teach them what honor and responsibility are.

The country needs to set its moral clock back about sixty years.

While you may believe this is the sole answer,this completely usurps some of the most basic constitutional premises. I believe in God, but I don’t believe in forcing Him on those who do not and have no desire to.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

A safe and a free society are two terms I am beginning to think are very close to being mutually exclusive.

 

[Doublecluck]

Here
https://townhall.com/columnists/kev...eliminate-school-shootings-overnight-n2450380


Looks like some high schools were already taking steps, leave it up to Liberal dems to see to that..

http://tribunistdaily.com/index.php...legal-to-stop-a-school-shooting-with-a-gun-2/

 

[VikingsGuy]

As a reminder to those who believe the 2nd amendment is beyond limitation, an item in today's news serves is timely. While not as authoritative as an actual ruling on the merits - it does give on a good picture of how the justices view this topic -- only one justice was bothered by California's 10-day wait period. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...o-california-gun-waiting-period-idUSKCN1G4200

Each person can have their own preference as to how they would like to read the constitution I guess, but I am not sure where the NRA and NARAL get their absolutist views on their respective readings -- nothing in the last 120 years of SCOTUS jurisprudence has suggested any right is an absolute right, rather even our most treasured rights (speech, guns, religion, privacy, etc.) have always, and will always, be subject to government restriction. Neither of these two advocacy groups are doing America any favors in my opinion.

 

[Gut Shot]

While you may believe this is the sole answer,this completely usurps some of the most basic constitutional premises. I believe in God, but I don’t believe in forcing Him on those who do not and have no desire to.

I won't force my religion on anyone either, I hate it when the bible thumpers come to my door as much as anyone, and this certainly isn't the sole answer. However, Christian laws and values made this country great. And you can have those values without visiting a church. I just think this is a good place to start and it is something that everyone can do every day. Be a role model, praise those who look up to you when they do right and correct them when they do wrong.

 

[Tradewind]

Here
https://townhall.com/columnists/kev...eliminate-school-shootings-overnight-n2450380


Looks like some high schools were already taking steps, leave it up to Liberal dems to see to that..

http://tribunistdaily.com/index.php...legal-to-stop-a-school-shooting-with-a-gun-2/

I like your town hall article of 7 solutions