School/Mass shootings what's the answer?

88man · Feb 16, 2018

We protect lives with guns. Maybe the situation warrants an armed guard at schools and a certain percentage of the staff to be armed?

jryoung · Feb 16, 2018

88man said:
We protect lives with guns. Maybe the situation warrants an armed guard at schools and a certain percentage of the staff to be armed?

A bakesale for glocks would be awesome. Teachers nearly lost the classroom expense deduction in the tax bill, who's going to put up funding for security and weapons.

Topgun 30-06 · Feb 16, 2018

88man said:
Yes. I believe there are Lots of crazy people in this country. In september I was burglarized. In the past few years my business was robbed and broken into many times and its not in a bad area.

What would you call a bad area then for Pete's sake?

VAspeedgoat · Feb 16, 2018

Depending on the cost, the crotega system could be cheaper than two extra resource officers and have little chance of friendly fire.

fwagner · Feb 16, 2018

MTGomer said:
You’re right that religion is hands down the most deadly ‘idea’ if you will, since the beginning of time. But i don’t think that kids not having religion forced down their throat is what people mean when they talk about the changes in society, but more the evaporation in society if a common sense of decency and the ‘family unit’ as they call it, which basic tenants of Christianity promote, such as love, humility, forgiveness, etc.
Not to mention, people of some kind of faith believe that if they shoot 19 kindergartners and then themselves, they will have to answer for that.

I don’t know if video games have anything to do with it directly or not, but kids are definitely becoming more and more introverted and lacking social skills, not to mention a work ethic. Combine that with internet bullying and the victims being taught they have to take it, instead of defend themselves. Kids just bottle it all up and some snap.
A couple years ago the son of the city engineer of the City of Billings killed himself after being bullied terribly and the school district wouldn’t help him. Some kids might take a gun to school and get revenge instead.

Why does this happen in the USA and not other countries? Our access to these type of guns may allow for higher casualties when an event like this occurs, but access to these guns is obviously not what causes someone to decide to kill a bunch of innocent kids to begin with.
There are a lot of countries with guns. But, aside from politically motivated slaughters like Islamic terrorism, the random killing of innocent strangers doesn’t happen regularly anywhere but here. Why? Perhaps no one really knows.

I feel that the people who shouldn’t be a part of the conversation are those with an agenda other than keeping people alive. Politically, the supporters of gun control are also abortion advocates. Believing in ‘choice’ right up until birth. People that support murdering babies can spare us all their bullshit crocodile tears about how they pretend to be sad that some innocent kids got shot. I have a hard time believing that these politicians are the people that should be trying to solve this problem. Like many here have said, it’s best solved by responsible gun owners. It’s the ‘how?’ That we seem hung up on.

What a absolute joke of a comment....linking abortion to the gun control issue. People like this are way we can't talk about complex issues. I'm liberal, believe in gun control, but I'm not a abortion advocate. The fact that you walk around with these uneducated "if this, then they are that" philosophies seriously hinders your abilities to ever discuss, let alone understand complex issues. Terrible.

MinnesotaHunter · Feb 16, 2018

fwagner said:
What a absolute joke of a comment....linking abortion to the gun control issue. People like this are way we can't talk about complex issues. I'm liberal, believe in gun control, but I'm not a abortion advocate. The fact that you walk around with these uneducated "if this, then they are that" philosophies seriously hinders your abilities to ever discuss, let alone understand complex issues. Terrible.

I am pretty sure he's not talking about you (or other rational people), he is talking about the politicians.

fwagner · Feb 16, 2018

MinnesotaHunter said:
I am pretty sure he's not talking about you (or other rational people), he is talking about the politicians.

Abortion has ZERO to do with this topic, shouldn't even by typed in the thread. It dilutes and pollutes the topic and makes everything my confusing is my point. People like that make it even harder to discuss a difficult topic.

Coyotecaller93 · Feb 16, 2018

I know I'm probably going to tick some people off but what I am about to say was told to me by a 15 year old kid. Video games now are what a flight simulator is to aviation. He said anyone who plays enough shooter video games could do this type of thing.

I know I listened to a story about how thanks to video games it's easier for the troops now to pull the trigger versus WWII. I wouldn't know I wasn't in the service.

fwagner · Feb 16, 2018

Coyotecaller93 said:
I know I'm probably going to tick some people off but what I am about to say was told to me by a 15 year old kid. Video games now are what a flight simulator is to aviation. He said anyone who plays enough shooter video games could do this type of thing.

I know I listened to a story about how thanks to video games it's easier for the troops now to pull the trigger versus WWII. I wouldn't know I wasn't in the service.

No, no, no, no....I've played a ton of video games. I had a 2.04 KDR on Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2, i'm that level of a nerd (used to be). Blaming this on video games is just laziness, saying that it teaches you anything about combat is absurd. I had a buddy who was from the suburbs of Chicago who would always play online and he couldn't load a BB gun. Next theory please!!!

OhHeyThereBen · Feb 16, 2018

fwagner said:
No, no, no, no....I've played a ton of video games. I had a 2.04 KDR on Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2, i'm that level of a nerd (used to be). Blaming this on video games is just laziness, saying that it teaches you anything about combat is absurd. I had a buddy who was from the suburbs of Chicago who would always play online and he couldn't load a BB gun. Next theory please!!!

Dude. Your last few comments aren't very professional. Also, talking about your KDR on this forum usually won't get you too far.

I would argue that you could learn quite a bit about military tactics as well as be desensitized by watching yourself (in a pretend world) kill people by the thousands. I watched my little brother in laws play one of the newer shooting games and felt upset to my stomach because of how graphic it was. If you can handle that with no problem, that's desensitization.

Also, welcome Coyotecaller! I see this is your first post.

fwagner · Feb 16, 2018

OhHeyThereBen said:
Dude. Your last few comments aren't very professional. Also, talking about your KDR on this forum usually won't get you too far.

I would argue that you could learn quite a bit about military tactics as well as be desensitized by watching yourself (in a pretend world) kill people by the thousands. I watched my little brother in laws play one of the newer shooting games and felt upset to my stomach because of how graphic it was. If you can handle that with no problem, that's desensitization.

Also, welcome Coyotecaller! I see this is your first post.

I brought it up to make a point, not to be "professional". I could just as easily say that you watching a video game and becoming disturbed by it makes you weak minded and without morals as you state that I am "desensitized". I'm not desensitized, I know the difference between real and fake. I'm sorry thats a difficult concept for your to grasp. Video games = fake, Murdering actual people = real. Movies = fake, footage of a rampage = real.....

rtraverdavis · Feb 16, 2018

805Bowhunter said:
While I cannot speak to the validity of these statistics, I definitely see your point. In high schools specifically, depression/prescription med abuse is rampant and the amount of services related to mental health are cut tremendously. When I first started, in 2006, our school had six counselors which were used significantly. Now we have one full time counselor and one part time counselor. They are doing complete damage control and can rarely see students, even in crisis, because there is such a long wait. This is an affluent district as well. This trend is nationwide and these mental health services are getting chopped year after year and we keep asking why the hell it is happening. We wonder why kids are freaking out but never really ask why. Even in mental health cases, a lot of these shootings the student/kid was never given access to mental health services. Its not an expensive service to fund. And, removing these services is only going to exacerbate the issue.

Excellent points, and it’s the same deal at my school. We’ve got over 1,100 kids and TWO! full time counselors—both of whom are old, tired, and half way out the door to retirement. A lot of the time it’s us teachers who end up playing the role of counselor. I like talking with kids, helping them work through problems, but I’m no trained counselor. Lots of kids not getting what they need—at school, and at home.

dcopas78 · Feb 16, 2018

fwagner said:
I'm not desensitized, I know the difference between real and fake. I'm sorry thats a difficult concept for your to grasp. Video games = fake, Murdering actual people = real. Movies = fake, footage of a rampage = real.....

You may be able to grasp the concept, but somebody that is insane or otherwise mentally inept and morally void may not be. I think that is the important thing to remember

Zach · Feb 16, 2018

jryoung said:
A bakesale for glocks would be awesome. Teachers nearly lost the classroom expense deduction in the tax bill, who's going to put up funding for security and weapons.

Where is all that lottery school money? and now weed tax money?

OhHeyThereBen · Feb 16, 2018

fwagner said:
I brought it up to make a point, not to be "professional". I could just as easily say that you watching a video game and becoming disturbed by it makes you weak minded and without morals as you state that I am "desensitized". I'm not desensitized, I know the difference between real and fake. I'm sorry thats a difficult concept for your to grasp. Video games = fake, Murdering actual people = real. Movies = fake, footage of a rampage = real.....

I would again argue that being able to watch people get slaughtered, whether real or fake, and not have any feelings whatsoever, is desensitization. This is an argument that is separate to the issue.

In my opinion you will get much farther in life by being professional and courteous. My opinion, and I've had pretty good luck with it.

brownbear932008 · Feb 16, 2018

pabearhunter said:
I guess you can't see the point that is being made.

To be honest I don't. It's apples and oranges in comparison. This is the mind set that if adopted by everyone in this thread we will lose way more than we want down the road. For us to stand and scream the old saying "outta my dead hands" etc we will be big losers in this topic down the road and you will be lucky to purchase any semi auto at an ffl. Because again we are a very small percentage of voters and will lose on that battlefield.

Doublecluck · Feb 16, 2018

I have some experience with hard core gamers, they make great CNC programmers. Of the 6 I have employed, 3 were nuts. Zero social skills, no girlfriends outside the net etc.etc. I had to let one go and I was positive he was going to come back and kill us all. I wore concealed carry for two months. There are normal guys who play games, then there are guys who play games that just aren’t normal.

brownbear932008 · Feb 16, 2018

fwagner said:
I brought it up to make a point, not to be "professional". I could just as easily say that you watching a video game and becoming disturbed by it makes you weak minded and without morals as you state that I am "desensitized". I'm not desensitized, I know the difference between real and fake. I'm sorry thats a difficult concept for your to grasp. Video games = fake, Murdering actual people = real. Movies = fake, footage of a rampage = real.....

It's awesome that you can see the difference between the two. But serious question here how many children/adults can't do that on a daily basis? Not everyone is the same as we all know and I personally feel desensitized material is a factor in these situations along with numerous others. Great conversation.

rtraverdavis · Feb 16, 2018

Zach said:
Where is all that lottery school money? and now weed tax money?

The cost of running a school district keeps getting more and more expensive—more kids, more technology that needs more-or-less constant updating, cost of living increases, aging infrastructure, etc. The tax money we get barely cuts it. I spend my own money on stuff for my kids and classroom regularly.

MinnesotaHunter · Feb 16, 2018

fwagner said:
I brought it up to make a point, not to be "professional". I could just as easily say that you watching a video game and becoming disturbed by it makes you weak minded and without morals as you state that I am "desensitized". I'm not desensitized, I know the difference between real and fake. I'm sorry thats a difficult concept for your to grasp. Video games = fake, Murdering actual people = real. Movies = fake, footage of a rampage = real.....

I would recommend you go to Google Scholar, punch this topic in, and read some of the many peer-reviewed research papers, and see what the professionals have found. That is what I did.....video games do some wild things to your brain, especially the developing brains of kids.

Or don’t, whatever makes you happy.

School/Mass shootings what's the answer?

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