Who needs Earth First...
- Thread starter Ben Lamb
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belly-deep
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I agree with Randy and Rob.
And I would bet that many on here would mistake a malamute for a wolf out on the NF. Much of what our brain tells us we are perceiving depends on context. That is a psychological fact.
The hunter was nice enough to acknowledge his mistake and approach the guy afterward. And then the guy turned around and fed a bull$hit story to the missoulian, knowing the community would eat it up in outrage.
And I would bet that many on here would mistake a malamute for a wolf out on the NF. Much of what our brain tells us we are perceiving depends on context. That is a psychological fact.
The hunter was nice enough to acknowledge his mistake and approach the guy afterward. And then the guy turned around and fed a bull$hit story to the missoulian, knowing the community would eat it up in outrage.
noharleyyet
Well-known member
This thread is just about
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^..................____________ tone
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^..................____________ tone
I don't think anyone is throwing the hunter under the bus. He made a series of questionable choices - legallity notwithstanding.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with stating the obvious: The hunter made poor choices. If hunters don't call out that kind of ethical lapse, then we leave it anti-hunters like Anja Heister & Footloose. Policing our own is just common sense.
Another follow up, this time, with calls for more gun control & another changing story from the guy who owns the dogs:
http://missoulian.com/news/local/do...cle_00ff345c-5184-11e3-87ae-001a4bcf887a.html
RobG
Well-known member
Ben, occasional legislative advocate, aren't you are making assumptions about the hunter's choices based on the testimony of a liar? Furthermore, making a mistake - which is apparently what happened - is far different than an ethic lapse.
Besides, what the heck is a legislative advocate?
Bambistew
Well-known member
Seems like plenty of hunters are give the guy a free pass.
Both are at fault. The dog owner should recognize that there are other people in the woods, as should the hunter.
noharleyyet
Well-known member
Unscrupulous favor currying slimeball parasites...but only when advocating the grand 'ol party's ideology
RobG
Well-known member
Ben - have any of the guy's claims been verified? You said it happened 400 yards from a campsite. Has anyone visited the scene of the "crime?" Has anyone verified the story about him being 15 yards away? Seriously, how do you miss 4 out of 6 shots at 15 yards, the first shot (generally the most accurate) hit the leg? Has self defense even been ruled out?
Based on my conversations with folks in MT (beyond the internet), nobody is giving the hunter a free pass. He made some poor choices that resulted in this situation, just like the dog owner did.
Pretty fit description for all of us slimeballs plying the halls of the legislature and congress.
The dog is dead, with multiple gunshots. That's been verified.
It happened pretty close to the campground, and according to the reporter, whom I know fairly well and would trust, it was 400 yards. Chaney makes his living reporting, he's not CBS News.
Yes, the story changes, and additions like a silencer should give us all pause. I would also say that any one of us, when put into a situation like this, would not have been able to recall every single detail perfectly, so while the story changes and additions like silencers should make us all look askance, we shouldn't place all the blame on the dog owner. There was a lot of fail on the hunter's part here.
RobG
Well-known member
Is Chaney relying testimony or a visit to the site? If the site hasn't been visited I refuse to even believe that.
I don't know. But I know he's reading this thread. Hopefully he'll chime in.
Brandenbowhunter
Well-known member
Judging from the guys quotes in todays posting on the missoulian website, I am not going to take anything he says as truth. Feel bad for him losing his dog, but not that he took a out a wolf look a like and it got shot. The hunter is just as much at fault, but if a wolf looking dog was running at you our by you...be honest..you would try to shoot. This guy is now calling for bans on assault rifles...come on.
From a few prior reports I have read by Chaney, research and due diligence seem to come lower on his priority list than selling stories. Corrections seem to be a very common occurrence in his most dramatic reports, with apologies and retractions only being granted to those he finds favor with.
Hard to judge the right or wrong of this event, when all we have is the ever-changing account of one person in the story.
That being said, if a shooter fails to properly identify a malmute from a wolf, I have a hard time giving him any reprieve. Just the way it is. Failing to properly identify a target is not excusible. A malmute = a wolf is about the same as a tan horse = an elk.
And yes, the dog owner would have been well served by making his pets more visible. Only those who were there and know all the facts have the position to judge either party.
Publishing the multi-version, one-sided tale of events creates good drama, though is not useful to sorting out the facts and details of the story. Yet, it generates traffic to the Missoulian website. One can be assured that the bits and pieces of the many different versions parceled out by the Missoulian will be picked up as fact by those who want to restrict hunting on public lands and those who want to stop wolf hunting.
A sad situation for all involved, especially the dog.
katqanna
Well-known member
I know there is alot going on and various stories from the media. Not attacking the hunter, nor defending him, too much is unknown to make any determination yet. From a hunter and pet owners perspective, I would not even take my dogs out right now, not just because of hunters and guns, but traps, at which point blaze orange doesnt help them one damn bit. But, this was in one of the comment sections from Layne Spence's facebook page, complaining about all the misinformation going on in the media. I havent found the facebook yet, but it could be set to private. Just throwing it out there since Spence seems to be upset by the varying media differences as well (if the facebook posting is accurate and if his account is accurate).
"UPDATE: In his own words, this is the account of the tragedy posted on Facebook by Layne Spence, owner of the dog:
What is on my mind is the tragedy that has taken place and the miss quotes from the media and the Sheriffs dept. So I am setting the record straight. This is what happened….
I went crosscountry skiing up at Lee Creek campground where I have gone in the past. Knowing it was hunting season I put the bright lights that are on all three of my dogs collars.
After skiing for about 200-300 yards I here “tat”, my dog in front of me, his rear leg is blown off. I scream “no,no,no,stop stop” and as I near my dog who was 15 yards in front of me I hear “tat,tat,tat,tat.”
I look up and there is the “hunter” and I screamed “what have you done?” Screaming hysterically, the man says ” I thought it was a wolf.”
I said “You just killed my dog, you killed one of my kids.”
I started screaming “noooooo.” He started to say something like “can I do something,” not I am sorry.
I said “Do you know what a wolf looks like? You killed my dog.”
The man took off, I just screamed “noooooooo” and tried to put him back together but his leg was torn off and yes 15 yards in front of me and yes he was shot with an ASSAULT rifle, I know I have seen them it was either an AR 15 or AR 14. It was all black had a sound supressor and that was why no big BOOM BOOM semi automatic.
I know guns, I don’t have any but I have shot them before, and yes I have hunted both Bow and Rifle. It is the irresponsible hunters who think they can shoot any animal they see if they are in the woods.
The MT Fish and Wildlife said they couldn’t press any charges because it wasn’t a game animal on the road, it was a domestic animal. What???? Bullshit, So I left my skiis and poles there, put my Little Dave’s bloody and broken body on my shoulder and hiked out to also get my other dogs to safety.
So no charges, I call the police dept who gives me examples of people getting hurt because of the public outcry and are afraid of vigilante violence. But the truth is still one of our rights and so is freedom of speech. I don’t want this guy to get hurt , but something needs to be done…I am heart truly heart broken, everything I do is for my dogs, from where I live, to what I drive, and what I do is predicated on the lives of my dogs…Thank you to everyone who has wished myself and my other dogs Frank and Rex well…Layne"
"UPDATE: In his own words, this is the account of the tragedy posted on Facebook by Layne Spence, owner of the dog:
What is on my mind is the tragedy that has taken place and the miss quotes from the media and the Sheriffs dept. So I am setting the record straight. This is what happened….
I went crosscountry skiing up at Lee Creek campground where I have gone in the past. Knowing it was hunting season I put the bright lights that are on all three of my dogs collars.
After skiing for about 200-300 yards I here “tat”, my dog in front of me, his rear leg is blown off. I scream “no,no,no,stop stop” and as I near my dog who was 15 yards in front of me I hear “tat,tat,tat,tat.”
I look up and there is the “hunter” and I screamed “what have you done?” Screaming hysterically, the man says ” I thought it was a wolf.”
I said “You just killed my dog, you killed one of my kids.”
I started screaming “noooooo.” He started to say something like “can I do something,” not I am sorry.
I said “Do you know what a wolf looks like? You killed my dog.”
The man took off, I just screamed “noooooooo” and tried to put him back together but his leg was torn off and yes 15 yards in front of me and yes he was shot with an ASSAULT rifle, I know I have seen them it was either an AR 15 or AR 14. It was all black had a sound supressor and that was why no big BOOM BOOM semi automatic.
I know guns, I don’t have any but I have shot them before, and yes I have hunted both Bow and Rifle. It is the irresponsible hunters who think they can shoot any animal they see if they are in the woods.
The MT Fish and Wildlife said they couldn’t press any charges because it wasn’t a game animal on the road, it was a domestic animal. What???? Bullshit, So I left my skiis and poles there, put my Little Dave’s bloody and broken body on my shoulder and hiked out to also get my other dogs to safety.
So no charges, I call the police dept who gives me examples of people getting hurt because of the public outcry and are afraid of vigilante violence. But the truth is still one of our rights and so is freedom of speech. I don’t want this guy to get hurt , but something needs to be done…I am heart truly heart broken, everything I do is for my dogs, from where I live, to what I drive, and what I do is predicated on the lives of my dogs…Thank you to everyone who has wished myself and my other dogs Frank and Rex well…Layne"
belly-deep
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Its new. All the cool people have them. You must not be cool enough.
belly-deep
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Spence also lied to the missoulian about not having any family in missoula and that the dogs were all he has in life. My brother works for his brother...in missoula.
This guy is just drumming up a big hunter/gun bashing pity party. Hard to feel bad for him when he has an underlying agenda.
This guy is just drumming up a big hunter/gun bashing pity party. Hard to feel bad for him when he has an underlying agenda.
noharleyyet
Well-known member
...must be a Ruger Mini 14 'variant'
katqanna
Well-known member
1_pointer, I know gamers that have never shot a real gun in their life and definitely dont hunt, they barely do much away from their computers, but they know weaponry because of their RPG's (not rocket propelled grenades, but online/digital electronic tactical role playing games like Battlefield and Call of Duty). I could not tell you the statistics of how many of these gamers are adult males, but many of them talk and can identify quite a bit militarily. I know of a number of men here in Bozeman that heavily game and yet the flip side of the coin is outdoor recreation like snowboarding/skiing, hiking, climbing, etc. So the possibility is there this guy, though not a current hunter, could know a semi-automatic model with a suppressor.
Now, from a quick search, the AR14 from the real world military guys, the AR-14 was Armalite's platform AR-14 burst fire and full auto, a predecessor to the AR-15 and some were used in Vietnam. From the role playing world, which takes me back to my comments earlier, I give you the AR-14 assault rifle of the Republic of Surea Armed Forces, manufactured by Deftech Industries.
