Problems with Utah-Why should I avoid it as a place to live\hunt?

[Huntin_GI]

Hey team,

Could someone explain why UT is such a bad option when it comes to places to settle down? I am not up to speed on the issues and copious internet searches produced little.

Thanks guys.

 

[F250]

I have hunted there many times. I have always had a great experience ! I have never had a negative interaction with any of the locals. In fact, they have been very welcoming. The hunting and scenery are spectacular !!

 

[schmalts]

Sfw

 

[1_pointer]

Sfw

That and as far as hunting, I think a couple of the neighboring states have better and easier options.

 

[JoseCuervo]

When thinking about living in Utah, there is a "giant elephant in the room".

You are either part of the elephant, or, you are not. That is the biggest pro/con.

 

[Southern Elk]

Utah is the epicenter for the pushing to sell or transfer our public lands. You could move there and be an advocate for public lands, but it would be frustrating and a constant battle.

 

[Nameless Range]

Despite the SFW and crooked public land views of their politicians, I bet Utah could be a great place to live. Awesome outdoor opportunities from deserts to alpine environments. If you want to live there I'd say go for it.

But as others have hinted at. Utah is a basically a Theocracy, which may or may not be a problem for you.

 

[utah400elk]

I lived in Utah for over 20 years. The "elephant" is the church. I thought it was a great state with good hunting and fishing. However, once I had my son we moved. If you are not Mormon you will always be an outsider. A few quick stories...

My neighbors would walk all around the neighborhood and pick up trash from the street. They would then carry it and drop it in the non-Mormon families yards. I had it happen to me several times. I always confronted them and they said that the trash had clearly come from non members.

Another example was during a heavy snow storm. The elderly couple who lived near me could not shovel their drive or sidewalks. I went out and shoveled their sidewalks and started on the driveway. As I started a local police office arrived. He was shaking his head in disbelief. I was a local Deputy Sheriff at the time and the elderly couple said they wanted me to keep shoveling but didn't trust me because I was not a church member. I immediately stopped shoveling.

There were numerous times when working decisions would first go through the church before they were voted on. They even sold a piece of public street to the church to help stop protesting. Massive traffic change to the traffic flow in a typical Utah underhanded deal with no public input.

I will avoid the SFW issue. They are ruining hunting in the West and are a cancer in my opinion.

In the long run, I was very glad to move away from Utah. I miss the scenery but the influence from the church was not something I wanted my son to have to deal with.

 

[elkduds]

On Monster Muleys forum you can read plenty by Utahns bashing their state, their gov't, each other, SFW, Peay, Chaffetz, their wildlife dept, atv riders, poachers, a long list.

 

[grandejuan]

I have great respect for my Mormon friends in Utah, there are many good folks there, but as the deputy said there are lots of very insular folks too. He is not kidding with his examples, I've seen it too. That being said, you won't have much trouble if you are Catholic or Jewish. Speaking of Jewish, I am one, and its the only place a Jew is called a "Gentile". As they say, " Its a Mormon thing". GJ

 

[James Riley]

Good points by everyone.

It takes a lot of sand to hang where you are not welcome, especially if you fight. One of the reasons I left Idaho. I couldn't take it anymore. (I also missed the high plains/short grass prairie).

I think of the small businessperson who supports "our" cause, left twisting in the breeze because of a Utah boycott. They go tits-up and leave too. I think maybe if there are no resident folks on our side, then "we" are effectively ceding the floor to the opposition. But I also think "our" money eventually ends up in "their" hands if we go there (taxes, etc.).

I don't know the answer but I do love their land, especially the slick rock country.

One thing I would like to see is for the "big tent" we've been talking about to come up with a logo. It could be put in business windows, bumper stickers, etc. We could try to funnel our money to these folks. Hell, there could be version of it with a red diagonal line through it for the PLT types to post in their windows. That way money could vote (we all know it does anyway).

If boycott is the option, there needs to be an effective means of protecting *our* public lands while we are absent.

 

[hank4elk]

I looked for about 5 yrs when I was looking 10 yrs back,& had some real deals found on nice properties with creeks even. One right outside Zion I had taken bucks on. One near St.George.
One non-hunting trip with the SO on vacation through to Monument Valley changed that. Stepped in what the Elephant left more than once.
Funny,I would go visit friends years ago in real remote places and never felt TOO weird being an outsider.

That time on vacation was like walking into a bad cult movie.

 

[Huntin_GI]

What's the deal with resident tags there?

 

[utah400elk]

There are a a decent number of easy tags to get. Specifically general season Elk. Most of the other tags are getting harder and harder to draw. You will have a very hard time getting a decent Elk LE Tag and or deer LE tag. Most of the OIL tags are lottery type odds. Also, unless it has recently changed, as a resident you are only allowed to apply for one deer, Elk or antelope LE tag and one OIL species tag per year.

The general deer tags are almost every year to three or four years to draw. That's a bit of general info.

 

[macnshana]

This is tough to answer and stay politically correct. I lived in Utah for about 7 years. My wife lived there for over 30. It is one of the most beautiful states in my opinion but the "elephant" spoken of above can make it quite ugly. The church makes normal humans miserable. You would soon learn as a resident they have control over damn near everything. Some tags are fairly easy to get. Elk tags are usually a given for everyone on general units. General deer tags are about an every other year draw. Maybe one in three. The biologists aren't the brightest. Really good draw units are tough to get a tag for. Book Cliffs is about 15 years for elk and 10ish for deer. Diamond is pretty tough for either and is mainly private. I would say 90%+. Henry Mountains are simply a dream. You could sincerely go a lifetime and never draw a mule deer tag. The southern part of the state is amazing mule deer territory but again, a lot of private land. They offer several OIL tags. My old boss has 22pts for moose and still hasn't drawn. I know another who claims to have 25 for desert bighorn and said he doesn't think he has a chance for at least another 15 years which will put him almost 70. But if you have a lot of money you can get tags. I think year before last a guy paid over $200K for a Antelope Island mule deer tag. Utah loves, and I mean LOVES money. Ive never lived in a place like it. I lived in California for about 10 years so that's saying a lot.
Bottom line, if your not Mormon and have no plans to become Mormon and your not extremely wealthy, it may not be a place you want to live. It is, as I said, insanely beautiful. Other than SLC, Ogden and Provo. I guess you could say I have a love/hate relationship with Utah. I love the mountain ranges and thick timber. But I hate the way the church involves itself with politics and the lives of the nonmember's.

 

[macnshana]

I lived in Utah for over 20 years. The "elephant" is the church. I thought it was a great state with good hunting and fishing. However, once I had my son we moved. If you are not Mormon you will always be an outsider. A few quick stories...

My neighbors would walk all around the neighborhood and pick up trash from the street. They would then carry it and drop it in the non-Mormon families yards. I had it happen to me several times. I always confronted them and they said that the trash had clearly come from non members.

Another example was during a heavy snow storm. The elderly couple who lived near me could not shovel their drive or sidewalks. I went out and shoveled their sidewalks and started on the driveway. As I started a local police office arrived. He was shaking his head in disbelief. I was a local Deputy Sheriff at the time and the elderly couple said they wanted me to keep shoveling but didn't trust me because I was not a church member. I immediately stopped shoveling.

There were numerous times when working decisions would first go through the church before they were voted on. They even sold a piece of public street to the church to help stop protesting. Massive traffic change to the traffic flow in a typical Utah underhanded deal with no public input.

I will avoid the SFW issue. They are ruining hunting in the West and are a cancer in my opinion.

In the long run, I was very glad to move away from Utah. I miss the scenery but the influence from the church was not something I wanted my son to have to deal with.

Well said. I should have read this post before I commented. I don't think people can understand how bad it is dealing with the church until they live there for a year or two. It's borderline insanity. But Utah400elk has given you an idea of what you would have to look forward to.

 

[Gr8bawana]

I lived in Utah for over 20 years. The "elephant" is the church. I thought it was a great state with good hunting and fishing. However, once I had my son we moved. If you are not Mormon you will always be an outsider. A few quick stories...

My neighbors would walk all around the neighborhood and pick up trash from the street. They would then carry it and drop it in the non-Mormon families yards. I had it happen to me several times. I always confronted them and they said that the trash had clearly come from non members.

Another example was during a heavy snow storm. The elderly couple who lived near me could not shovel their drive or sidewalks. I went out and shoveled their sidewalks and started on the driveway. As I started a local police office arrived. He was shaking his head in disbelief. I was a local Deputy Sheriff at the time and the elderly couple said they wanted me to keep shoveling but didn't trust me because I was not a church member. I immediately stopped shoveling.

I have heard this same thing numerous times about being an "outsider" if you live there and are not a mormon. It's not someplace I would ever live.

 

[grandejuan]

After all the negativity about Utah, a real plus in the SLC area is the Tabernacle Choir. It is the finest in the world and it is free. The Utah Symphony and Ballet West are equally outstanding. The Olympics did a lot to open things up. Now its no problem having a cocktail at dinner and craft breweries abound. Even many LDS restaurants that don't serve alcohol provide setups for your byo wine. SLC even has a gentile mayor. GJ

 

[idelkslayer]

As a mormon who grew up in a place where mormons are a small minority I believe that the treatment I got was no better and no worse than a non-mormon will receive in Utah. I'm not complaining I love my hometown/area and most of the people treat you the same either way so the few bigots don't matter. So I would give the advice that if you do decide to move to Utah don't let a few bigots (mormons or otherwise) bother you. Bigot: a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions (it can go both ways) And contrary to popular belief we're not all in Utah and you probably know a few whether you're aware of their religion or not.

To the OP's question. I would never want to live in Utah for many of the same stated reasons above. There is a reason that many Utahns head to southern Idaho and Wyoming to hunt. They can't draw tags in their own state. Utah long ago decided to make wildlife a business proposition at the expense of hunting opportunity. That said they do produce some big bucks and bulls so I guess it comes down to what you want more. I'm an opportunity guy so I stay away from Utah.

 

[hank4elk]

Oh I loved the country and the hunting early on,visited most of the sights & wandered around Monument Valley like John Wayne.

No regrets really about my choice as it has always been my 1st.