Outfitter Contracts - What are you signing

[tormenter]

Hello Goodpeople,
This past fall I was looking at outfitters for my son's late bull hunt and had it narrowed down and was ready to sign the contract until I read it in its entirety. The contract was rather lengthy and contained a couple of what I deemed unsignable rights. It was asking for indemnity and releasing all rights against the outfitter regardless of whom is or was at fault?

I found it hard to believe anyone would give up these rights and even had my attorney review it.

Are you guys really signing contracts with these clauses?

After a couple of conversations with the prespective outfitter, we moved on to a different outfitter. I checked with several other outfitters and everyone said the same thing - What does indemnity even mean. The other outfitters had 2 or 3 page contracts that were simple and seemed reasonable.

What are you guys agreeing to when you go on a guided hunt?

 

[Sheltowee]

Yeah, I've seen some pretty extreme clauses in outfitter contracts. 99% of the time they don't know what they are asking. One very prominent booking service insisted I agree to indemnify them for any and all claims the outfitter might bring against the booking service, after I had already paid an initial deposit. Prominent Booking Service was adamant they had never had a problem with an outfitter and would "take care" of us should anything arise, but refused to revise their language. I gave PBS the option of refunding the deposits or honoring the contract we had already entered into-- after about three weeks, they finally refunded.

Read. The. Fine. Print. It doesn't matter until it does.

 

[rebelmdb]

Outfitters go one of two ways with contracts the good ol boy version which is basically signing and saying you will be there and pay, or the I had an attorney write this and I want my rear covered when some dummy shoots himself in the leg. But it is always wise to read everything on them because you never know until it truly matters

 

[wytex]

I may be wrong but I think some states have laws about this and your activities in the out of doors, outfitter is not liable.
Someone may know and speak up.

That clause keeps them from being responsible when the hunter does stupid things in the back country. I've seen a guy get bent over something he did and try to blame the outfitter. He found out real quick he was the dull tool, not the outfitter.

Better read up on the deposit section of that contract too, in case of cancellation.

 

[Sheltowee]

Outfitters go one of two ways with contracts the good ol boy version which is basically signing and saying you will be there and pay, or the I had an attorney write this and I want my rear covered when some dummy shoots himself in the leg. But it is always wise to read everything on them because you never know until it truly matters

Right, and I have zero problem with an outfitter CYAing in the event some dolt puts a Barnes TTSX through his rear. I do have a pretty significant problem with folks shifting risk onto the hunter for situations beyond a hunter's control or talking a big game but presenting a written document that delivers a lot less. If it isn't written in black and white, it doesn't matter.

 

[rebelmdb]

That is absolutely correct, especially one that has no idea what they are signing or getting into.

 

[elevatorman]

I ran into this when getting a new roof last year. Company A is the biggest most well known company in the area, called them got a quote, they sent over the contract. Big, long. I found some utter garbage in it. They could install my roof Crooked, throw nails all over my yard, leave all trash onsite, etc. I marked it up, took out the parts I didn't agree with and sent it back. The owner called me then and reassured me none of that would make a difference, they would do a good job. I said we'll if that's true you should have no problem taking it out of your contract and signing it, he refused. So I thought he's a liar and moved on. Then ran into a roofing guy at our local gun shop, he came and gave me a quote, sent his contract over. One page, very simple, no ridiculous things In it. He did a great job.

One thing I've learned from my industry and being involved with office processes, is contracts are not written in stone. It was very common for our customers to mark a contract up and send it back. If you don't like that clause, mark it up and send it back for them to sign the revised version. If they are unwilling that tells you something about their character and intentions. Sometimes the clause is ridiculous and your reasonable to not agree, sometimes the customer is ridiculous and it's better for the company to not agree to a change.

 

[tormenter]

Some of the terminology I was referring to is:

I will not initiate, join or approve any claim, lawsuit, court action, or other legal proceeding or demand against the Outfitter for injuries(including death), etc - EVEN if it is indirectly or directly caused by the action, inaction, negligence or other fault of Outfitter.

This phrase blew me away and then if you read further they were asking you to waive your insurer's rights to make a claim.

I was floored to say the least and can't imagine why anyone on earth would sign a contract like this to go on ahunting trip.

 

[noharleyyet]

Some of the terminology I was referring to is:

I will not initiate, join or approve any claim, lawsuit, court action, or other legal proceeding or demand against the Outfitter for injuries(including death), etc - EVEN if it is indirectly or directly caused by the action, inaction, negligence or other fault of Outfitter.

This phrase blew me away and then if you read further they were asking you to waive your insurer's rights to make a claim.

I was floored to say the least and can't imagine why anyone on earth would sign a contract like this to go on ahunting trip.

Held Harmless language...

How bad do you want to hunt with them?

 

[tormenter]

Held Harmless language...

How bad do you want to hunt with them?

When it was said and done, the outfitter said he would not make any changes to the contract as advised by his attorney.

I told him you could offer me this hunt for $1 and still wouldn't sign the contract!

 

[noharleyyet]

When it was said and done, the outfitter said he would not make any changes to the contract as advised by his attorney.

I told him you could offer me this hunt for $1 and still wouldn't sign the contract!

Ok, that's your choice.