More road closures

[mtmiller]

Why were most of those roads created?

btw, "your" doesn't work "good" "hear".

Sorry Jose.

 

[dan.kirkpatrick]

Im 47 and most of them have been around as long as ive ever known? Id say the majority of them were put in back in the oregon logging heydays of the 70's and 80,s ,,,back when we had a actual economy that logging was a part of,,,and if we want to get some of oregons elk #s back and increase our #s a so called 50% all we gotta do is get rid of our imnaha wolf packs that are federally protected and knock down our couger predation problem thats wiping the elk out,,,,roads have nothing to do with that issue,,,odfw knocked out 100 cats out of heppner unit a few years ago and now elk calf recruitment is way up and the herd is starting to rebound back,,,but thats another issue.

 

[dan.kirkpatrick]

Jose:::look inside a pair of danner pronghorns and mine say,,,made in China...only some danners are still made in oregon still.

 

[shoots-straight]

Dan, I heard that the control agents added in with the legal take, are responsible for more cats today than when they had hound hunting. Is that true?

Most of the roads we have, came about in the 70's and early 80's. The Forest Service was afraid that the road less lands would be "LOCKED" up so they road-ed as much as they could then. The roads, coupled with terrible logging practices had a huge impact on the Root. Made slaughters like what we had in 2005 more likely.

 

[dan.kirkpatrick]

that absolutly isnt true im sure,,,cats are very elusive and very hard to get without dogs,,,Ive yet to get one spot and stalk in over 20 years of hunting,,,oregon cat numbers are booming now since oregon outlawed using dogs,,,now we pay contracted bounty hunters to control the cats with our tag fees we pay to odfw,,, and now with wolfs coming over from idaho??? look what they did in idaho,,,decimation of awesome elk herds,,,but thats not this issue,,,this issue is about our public land access,,,,and good news to report,,,just today wallowa county is appealing so thank you wallowa county.

 

[1_pointer]

atv damage is never a good thing,,,closing more roads will not reduce that type of impact

I'm not following your logic with that one. IME, roads often lead to new jumping off points for illegal ATV use...

 

[shoots-straight]

that absolutly isnt true im sure,,,cats are very elusive and very hard to get without dogs,,,Ive yet to get one spot and stalk in over 20 years of hunting,,,oregon cat numbers are booming now since oregon outlawed using dogs,,,now we pay contracted bounty hunters to control the cats with our tag fees we pay to odfw,,, and now with wolfs coming over from idaho??? look what they did in idaho,,,decimation of awesome elk herds,,,but thats not this issue,,,this issue is about our public land access,,,,and good news to report,,,just today wallowa county is appealing so thank you wallowa county.

Dan you really should check your facts. Sense this graph was done, they kill way more. Over 500 in some years. check this last link out for a update. That compared to around 200 with hounds. The link gets you to 2010 information.

http://www.dfw.state.or.us/resource..._statistics/10/2010_big_game_statistics_g.pdf

 

[shoots-straight]

I know how tough cats are to hunt. I have done some, even been fairly successful. Here's 1 of 4 called in and killed.

Just say it like it is.

You want to drive your ATV anywhere you want. You don't care if it has an impact on the resource, or makes for shorter seasons, with less elk. The bulls are big enough for you.

Lets just hope they get the rail gun up and running so we can shoot 3 mile shots on elk. Save on gas running that 4-wheeler all over too. That way we can sit in camp over looking a good view and shoot from there. Elk don't need any help to survive, it's all the preds fault.

You'll reap what you sow. Good for Wallowa county. Just don't come here looking for big bulls because you can't or won't take care of yours.

 

[Bambistew]

This is one reason I love ATV's so much. The 6 miles previous to this looked similar.

Some areas should not have roads, even if they exist today.

I would expect some serrious changes in travel plans in the near future. Once someone figures out that a trail=road and why no wetlands permiting was included in the 'construction' of said road. I think we'll see roads closed left and right.

I can't wait!

 

[JoseCuervo]

jose::: do you even know the layout of the wallowa whitman national forest? obviously your uninformed,,,this issue is about closing many roads that have been open for the last 40 years on our public lands.atv damage is never a good thing,,,closing more roads will not reduce that type of impact,,,only more active enforcement will.

Yep, I know the WWNF..... It takes about an hour to get there from my house. Not sure what I am uninformed on, I am not making any bogus claims like you are. The facts are, Fat-Assed ATV riders cause damage.

If you have 6000 miles of roads open, how many enforcement officers are you wanting to hire to patrol and catch Fat-Assed ATV riders? That seems stupid when you can just restrict the ATVs, improve hunting, and not have to spend money catching Fat-Assed ATV riders damaging My Public Lands.

:look inside a pair of danner pronghorns and mine say,,,made in China...only some danners are still made in oregon still.

I don't buy the cheap Danners, I buy the good ones that are made in Oregon. Of course, I actually use my Danners for hunting and hiking, so I need the good ones. I guess if I just sat my ass on an ATV, I could get by with the cheap Chinese ones to operate the brake and the shifter lever with my toe.

all we gotta do is get rid of our imnaha wolf packs that are federally protected and knock down our couger predation problem thats wiping the elk out,,,,roads have nothing to do with that issue,

You are now blaming wolves for the elk numbers? I will gladly hunt every day in an area frequented by wolves vs an area frequented by Fat-Assed ATV riders. My Idaho bull this year came from a unit with wolves and ATV restrictions. I never saw any of the Fat-Assed ATV riders away from their ATV's. They all seemed to be driving up and down the roads all day, "saving the wear and tear" on their PU's.

(The looks on their faces when they have to pull over for your PU to pass, loaded with elk in the back, while they sit on their ATVs wondering why they haven't seen any elk is always enjoyable to me.)


And, you have plenty of time to sell your ATV and buy some new boots and get in shape to hunt. In fact, the WWNF is even letting you know in advance. So, you can hope your county commissioners can appeal this, or, you can get some boots on and start getting ready to hunt...

Release Date: Mar 20, 2012
Contact(s): Ken Sandusky; (541) 523-1364

The Wallowa-Whitman National Forest will implement a new Travel Management Plan in early Summer 2012, affecting motorized access to certain popular draw-hunts and ODFW Wildlife Management Units within the forest.
The units affected are: Catherine, Keating, Pine Creek, Imnaha, Chesnimnus, Sled Springs, Minam, Snake River, Sumpter, Starkey and Mt. Emily.
The new motor vehicle restrictions are meant to help promote big game health and well-being, increase suitable fish habitat and limit other resource damage occurring due to increasing off-highway vehicle (OHV) use and motorized cross-county travel.
Hunters should consider these changes in motor vehicle access when planning hunt applications. Cross-county travel will be closed forest-wide with implementation of this plan. Motorized access beyond 300 feet from open roadways will no longer be legal on the Wallowa-Whitman National Forest.

Nice cat....

 

[dan.kirkpatrick]

well I dont have the statistics in front of me but if your kill chart is correct then lets see a overall couger population chart??? maybe back when we could hunt cats with dogs the cat population was under control thus having a far lower overall cat population,,,maybe cat kills are up because cat #s have steadily risen ever since the hunting with dogs was banned in oregon,,,fact of the matter is our cat and wolf population is up,,,elk and mule deer #s are down,,,this has nothing to do with the road closure issue,,,again this isnt only about atvs and illegal damage,this is about roads for a multitude of forest users.

 

[dan.kirkpatrick]

If a person looks at the wilderness areas trails It is very evident that horses cause a tremendous amount of damage and errosion,,,are we gonna bar horses from wilderness travel next??? again this is about our access to public lands.

 

[dan.kirkpatrick]

jose quervo:::I did not see the small tag on my danner pronghorn boots till later,,,I thought they were made in the usa,,,,If all i did was ride a atv why would i need new boots???? I put alot of foot miles on every year hunting,,,elk are not stupid,,,most hunters know that it would be luck to get a elk off a atv,,,again this is about shutting down vehicle access on our public lands.

 

[dan.kirkpatrick]

according to the u s observer,,,6500 people opposed this proposal and 200 people supported it,,,It is opposed by the eastern oregon mining assoc,baker county livestock assoc,forest access for all assoc,andeastern oregon atv club,,,so im not the only one,,,,I just want the existing system left alone,,,let the road hunters do there thing,,,let the foot hunters do there thing,,,let the horsebackers do there thing,,,our national forest should be for every body to enjoy,there is plenty of diverse areas for all to enjoy whitchever way they can get out and enjoy the out doors

 

[dan.kirkpatrick]

This seems to be one heck of a debate,,,isnt americas freedom of speech great.whether your for or against I was only trying to get the word out on the closure issue.

 

[mtmiller]

that absolutly isnt true im sure,,,cats are very elusive and very hard to get without dogs,,,.

well I dont have the statistics in front of me but if your kill chart is correct then lets see a overall couger population chart??? maybe back when we could hunt cats with dogs the cat population was under control thus having a far lower overall cat population,,,maybe cat kills are up because cat #s have steadily risen ever since the hunting with dogs was banned in oregon,,,.

Looking for a different arguement after not admitting you were wrong in the first one?

according to the u s observer,,,6500 people opposed this proposal and 200 people supported it,,,

Could you provide a link? I don't have time right now to find out what the u s observer is.

 

[shoots-straight]

well I dont have the statistics in front of me but if your kill chart is correct then lets see a overall couger population chart??? maybe back when we could hunt cats with dogs the cat population was under control thus having a far lower overall cat population,,,maybe cat kills are up because cat #s have steadily risen ever since the hunting with dogs was banned in oregon,,,fact of the matter is our cat and wolf population is up,,,elk and mule deer #s are down,,,this has nothing to do with the road closure issue,,,again this isnt only about atvs and illegal damage,this is about roads for a multitude of forest users.

Lots of guessing there. I give proof, you give guesses. I gave you a link to more proof of lion harvest, and kills. Maybe your in denial???? Maybe your not willing to hike very far???? Maybe a frogs ass isn't water tight????

 

[RockyDog]

wow this thread gives all the usual rhetoric spewed by motorheads. pick a spot on the map 4 miles from the road. Now imagine accessing it motorized vs. non motorized. using nonmotorized methods it will take several hours to a full day. To access that spot using ATVs and motorcycles takes about 20-30 minutes. motorized use simply makes backcountry a drive-through where hordes of people can motor up there and be home before lunch.

the end result of motorhead selfishness is less game (shot off by the hordes), more restricted seasons, weeds everywhere, soil damages and to be blunt increases the number of careless a-holes out in the hills.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

It wouldn't break my heart if the friggin ATV had never been invented and any restrictions off the beaten track that they put on them are fine with me. I hunt a nonmotorized unit every year and it would be ruined in 2 or 3 days if ATVs were allowed. What tickles me is the road hunters that stop at our camp on the main road and they all say there are no animals to be had. We go back in on foot several miles for the day and always fill our tags if we want to.

 

[JoseCuervo]

jose quervo:::I did not see the small tag on my danner pronghorn boots till later,,

Yeah, me thinks details might not be important to you.....

,I thought they were made in the usa,,,,If all i did was ride a atv why would i need new boots???? I put alot of foot miles on every year hunting,,

You don't have to look for the tag, take a step back and look at the boots. The US made ones (at least when I bought my last pair) have the leather uppers turned out and you can see the stitching where the boots are sewn to the vibram sole. These boots can be rebuilt by stitching a new sole on the bottom of them. The Chinese ones don't show threads, and the leather is turned in/under and then glued to the sole. Details are important in life.

,elk are not stupid,,,most hunters know that it would be luck to get a elk off a atv,,,

I have seen all sorts of stupid elk. I would argue that every single elk I have killed was stupid. Conversely, I have also seen a ton of ATV hunters hunting elk. Two years ago, we had to help move a huge bull off the road that a couple of clowns in a side-by-side ATV killed from the seat of their Razr. By far the biggest bull I have seen in that area for the past 19 years. And, those two clowns are now convinced that the secret to killing big bulls is to put the miles on the odometer. If people don't think they can kill elk from their ATV, why do they buy the damn things, haul 6 of them to camp, and then spend all day riding them?

again this is about shutting down vehicle access on our public lands.

It is not about shutting down vehicle access on our public lands, it is about managing vehicle access on My Public Lands. And, in the WWNF, it looks like the guys who are professional land managers are looking at managing the land. What a great idea.

It is opposed by the eastern oregon mining assoc, baker county livestock assoc, forest access for all assoc, and eastern oregon atv club,,,so im not the only one,,

Yeah, those groups are certainly groups concerned with improving quality of hunting and maintaining the quality of land for all users in the WWNF....
Or, do those groups seem like ones that use/abuse My Public Lands for economic benefit, ie, Federal Welfare Subsidies?