kgriff2424
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Montana 32 day camping restriction
- Thread starter kgriff2424
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SAJ-99
Well-known member
Is the purpose to stop homeless encampments on NF land? If so, it seems sad it is necessary but I think there were already restrictions in a lot of places. Also not sure why this pertains to just the Northern region, and I'm too lazy to look into it.
kgriff2424
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To sum it up, it basically states you are not allowed to camp more than 32 days within an entire calendar year on national forest land.
Hunting Wife
Well-known member
I also think this is in response to the homeless encampments springing up everywhere. There were similar restrictions for years in and around the Bakken during the oil boom to alleviate the problem of people living full-time in campgrounds on public land.
Given the squatting going on on public land across the west, especially since the pandemic and the ridiculously overpriced housing, they have to do something.
Given the squatting going on on public land across the west, especially since the pandemic and the ridiculously overpriced housing, they have to do something.
MThuntr
Well-known member
I don't think they're going to be pushing enforcement on the people that have 3 day weekends once a month across the forest. BTW, this is not a new policy, they are just reminding people of current policies. It's been 16 days in one site for quite some time.
This is directed to vanlife squatters and homeless encampments that are basically living on the forest...possibly making things like latrines, trashpits, etc. YES it is unfortunate that places have become so expensive that people are living in campers on the forest but it's a necessary evil to make sure the place isn't destroyed any more than it already is.
We even have a problem with squatters out in the BLM here in Dillon. There's a camper that's been on BLM for the better part of the summer and I'm not sure the BLM has the cajones to do anything about it. The BOR kicked some campers off Clark Canyon this summer because they basically squatted and trashed property they set up camp.
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SAJ-99
Well-known member
I read it, but it doesn't provide clear context. Typical government doc I guess. In the Purpose section,
#1 - Alleviate environmental stress- Great! all for it, but not really addressed because you are not keeping person B from moving into a spot right after person A moves out. #2 - limit human and animal waste- Again, all for it. #3 Limit overgrazing - I'm sorry, what? nothing in there puts any limit of livestock, so its confusing. #4 Allow equal access - Again, I'm all for it.
I suspect it is directed toward homeless camps, but it could have other impacts. Some nice areas in Montana will have a wall tent set up 3 days before the season starts and it will be there until 3 days after the season ends just so a bunch of guys can shuttle in and out on their days off. Even in areas with time limits, no one enforced it where I was. Also, no one is going to keep track of your days so 32 or 36 it won't matter. The general conclusion is people are bad for the environment and won't follow rules. We will see how well it goes. The only remaining question is why just that district? I'm sure it is a problem in other states too.
I do understand that, regardless Im still breaking the law.
MThuntr
Well-known member
I wouldn't sweat it unless you're in a spot for more than a week, the FS doesn't have the time or staff to be concerned about us. It's a bit different when some complains about the rundown Winnebago parked at a trailhead with 6 junks cars. FWIW I've spent probably 60 days on the FS this summer alone.
Hnthrdr
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Down here in Co, we have a 14 day same spot restriction… loosely enforced. I was hunting coyotes by a friends cabin last winter and found a “hidden camper” with loads of tash/ waste that was occupied. Way more than 14 days. I reported it but who knows if they did anything. Pretty sad/ disgusting
Agreed, my level of concern is very low.
My issue is this feels like a law just to have a law, which is stupid!
SAJ-99
Well-known member
If the argument is about enforcement then I would agree. Rules without enforcement are just suggestions. If it isn’t about that, how would you have written the rule to stop homeless camps from forming on NF property?
Enforcement!
Nameless Range
Well-known member
I can think of three dispersed camping sites within 10 miles of my house that folks have been living in all summer. One of them has f!*king livestock. Another gal had a questionable wildfire behind her encampment. When I spoke to her while cutting wood only a few weeks ago, she was under the delusion that she was going to winter on an unplowed road at 7000 feet. When someone spends an entire summer at a dispersed camping location, one wonders where all their waste is going….In the past, I have turned folks in with varying degrees of success. It’s just a fact that there are not enough LEOs to deal with the deluge.
I actually think it should be less than 16 days for most campgrounds. Without enforcement that currently doesn’t exist, most of this is moot.
I actually think it should be less than 16 days for most campgrounds. Without enforcement that currently doesn’t exist, most of this is moot.
Some folks gotta learn the hard way. You turn any of them in to LEO? mtmuley
Nameless Range
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Not this summer. I have in the past. Been lazy, frankly
I don't think people are reading this correctly. It's about camping in the same spot for 16 days in a row. Pretty sure this already exists in the New Mexico region. It's to prevent people from setting up their RV for the summer and treating it like their summer home, running back to town for work during the week and hogging a good spot. I could be wrong...
802flyfish
Well-known member
It’s getting out of hand. There is a popular trailhead near my house where a group of hunters have erected a wall tent, a stone throw away from the main trail. It’s been there since opening weekend of archery. They have driven their UTV off trail and around this group of trees to park right in front of their campsite. Destroying 50 yards of this meadow in the process.
Various old vagrant campsites littered with destroyed tents and garbage. Too bad the FS is understaffed and under budgeted.
Various old vagrant campsites littered with destroyed tents and garbage. Too bad the FS is understaffed and under budgeted.
longbow51
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Too lazy to search out old regs, but I know there was a limit in wilderness areas when we were doing elk camp. Think it was 14 days.
This addresses a different problem though. And I really don't think anyone is keeping track of families spending a few nights on NF near the Madison, Blackfoot, etc., adding them up and fining you when you reach 32.
This addresses a different problem though. And I really don't think anyone is keeping track of families spending a few nights on NF near the Madison, Blackfoot, etc., adding them up and fining you when you reach 32.
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