Looking for some help...

[mr_steve]

Well, I am not usually one to do this but at the moment need a helping hand. Let me explain. I will try keep this short.

A friend and I started filming our hunts a few years ago. Last year we went to Montana on our first elk hunt in the Beaverhead NF and had a great time. My friend, Shayne killed a raghorn, and we came away with a great video, some of you may remember it. I spent over 40 hours editing. A couple months after releasing the video, the Forest Service contacted us saying we had illegally filmed and made us take it down, threatening jail time and a large fine. We found out we are considered commercial since we have a couple companies who have given us gear and we consider sponsors. We were genuinely shocked and asked what we could do to make it right since it was an honest mistake. The individual said there was nothing and that it would be best if we cooperated since he would be the one issuing the permits for the following years.

When it came to this year we made sure we were on top of it as we wanted to go to the same location. The individual said he would like 6 weeks before we planned to hunt to allow for processing. So after a few months past and we had our trip to Montana planned I submitted the film permit application 6 weeks prior to our trip (starts Sept 20th). I followed up the submission with a few voicemails to make sure they received it. After a week and a half I received a response saying that they were currently unable to process any applications and they ended with "good luck"! I called and they said they were under staffed and there was nothing they could do. Very frustrating to say the least.

I am still working with them to see if there are other options but I am also searching plan B, another area of public land, Gallatin NF. I spoke with the permit department and they said that they could easily help us if we submit the application early next week. There lies our problem, we have never been to Gallatin NF and need to tell them where we will be hunting.

We plan to do lots of scouting on google maps this weekend but we are wondering if anyone would be willing to point us in a direction. Not asking for coordinates but just a general area as it is a large forest. Also, we can't film in wilderness areas.

Thanks in advance for the help. Like Randy has said before, filming on public land and promoting the sport we love is sadly not made easy.

Steve

 

[mtmiller]

Like Randy has said before, filming on public land and promoting the sport we love is sadly not made easy.

Steve

Is it commercial or not? If not, it is very easy.

 

[mr_steve]

Is it commercial or not? If not, it is very easy.

Under their definition, since we have have received free gear and list sponsors we are commercial. We have put a bunch of money into equipment upgrades for this fall as we would like to try for a film tour this year so I assume we will definitely need a permit this year.

 

[mtmiller]

Steve, in my opinion you needed a permit last year and this year. That being said, 6 weeks is rediculous. Being understaffed is not exaggerated, but this is not time consuming. Easy template on film permits and no impacts. good luck

 

[Big Fin]

I called the BLM yesteday in Ely, NV and by late today, the draft of my permit had been given preliminary approval and final approval expected by Monday at close of business. It is night and day between how cooperative the BLM offices have been in our permitting, compared to the normal response at the USFS. Not sure why that is, or if my experience is unique.

By definition, if any form of compensation is received and the video content is used for any promotional purposes, it is considered commercial. Sounds crazy, I know, but that is how the rule is being interpreted.

If the USFS and BLM asked the outdoor TV networks and the hunting film tours for copies of filming permits supporting the content being published, not many would be able to produce them. If I was at those agencies and wanted higher compliance, I would tell all platforms that are distributing the content that they had better show proof of film permits. If the networks forced producers to provide proof, you would see more compliance.

I would guess that current compliance is less than 10%. I see a ton of web guys who are promoting all kinds of public land hunting; guys with FB pages that are full of public land content; guys who have their own ".com" retail stores; guys stamping out DVDs; and very few, if any, are bothering with the filming permits. All the subscriber-created content you see on company sites that is being acquired for either cash or product, and is being used by those companies for promo, technically requires a film permit.

I know that doesn't make you feel any better. Sucks to be the guy singled out, when so many others are not complying.

I've been "turned in" many times. Every time I am asked, I show them a copy of the permit and the problem goes away. There are people out there who are have some issues with my public land message and think the permit issue is a way to trip me up. Not sure who, but it is obvious our message has some people mad, either because of the message itself or because of competitive issues I operate in.

Since 2008, I have spent over $100,000 in film permits, when I add in what is being spent for the upcoming season. Not that I think my impact is reflective of that cost, but I am using a resource and if I want to make it a part of the brand we have built, I have to pay. When it gets upsetting is when some others try to make the public land gig part of their brand and they don't get many film permits.

Send me a PM and I can probably give you some starters for elk spots on the Gallatin. I live a mile from the nearest GNF trailhead.

 

[mr_steve]

Steve, in my opinion you needed a permit last year and this year. That being said, 6 weeks is rediculous. Being understaffed is not exaggerated, but this is not time consuming. Easy template on film permits and no impacts. good luck

I would agree, with how the rules are written we are commercial and I have no problem with getting permits. We would have gladly paid for a permit last year if we knew we needed one. I am more upset with their willingness to work with us. Oh well, what can you do besides keep on trying.

 

[sbhooper]

That is very typical of a government office. They are in the position of doing it when they want, or not at all. You have some flunky sitting in the office doing whatever permit they see fit and they have no one from above pressuring them to do it.

They claim to be understaffed, but somehow, they have someone to search Youtube for illegal videos. Give me a break!

You may even consider contacting a senator and telling them what the USFS is doing to you. That may build a fire, IF the representative will do their job, which is iffy at best.

 

[1_pointer]

Steve, in my opinion you needed a permit last year and this year. That being said, 6 weeks is rediculous. Being understaffed is not exaggerated, but this is not time consuming. Easy template on film permits and no impacts. good luck

Agreed. Steve, I would keep after them and I would not be hesitant to start asking further and further up the food chain. Don't know if it will help, but it can't hurt.

 

[mr_steve]

Agreed. Steve, I would keep after them and I would not be hesitant to start asking further and further up the food chain. Don't know if it will help, but it can't hurt.

This is my plan for Monday. If this goes nowhere I will submit our application for the Gallatin.