Sometimes, it's not just about the bi-peds
https://www.peregrinefund.org/subsites/conference-lead/PDF/0211 Saggese.pdf
Lead ammo ban on public lands
- Thread starter Bambistew
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Sometimes, it's not just about the bi-peds
https://www.peregrinefund.org/subsites/conference-lead/PDF/0211 Saggese.pdf
Just for the sake of clarity, each person posting on this thread must state if their citations are "facts" or "alternative facts." Just so we're all clear.
onpoint
Well-known member
I'm thinking I see what you did there.....
airlocksniffer
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I have a good feeling Kellyanne Conway and crew will produce some memorable quotes in the next 4 years.
D
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I would love to see the money spent on subsidized ethanol be redirected towards cost effective non-toxic shot.
Keeptrying
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https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/lead/acclpp/blood_lead_levels.htm
Up until 2012 levels above 10 micrograms per deciliter were "cause for concern". That term is no longer in use. A new 5 micrograms per deciliter threshold is recognized which rather than a scientific level only represents the 2.5% of children at the top of the testing results. Of particular interest is that chelation therapy(nor any other treatment)is called for at levels below 45 micrograms per deciliter.
Outliers from statistics are used more and more to make blanket statements about childhood safety. That is my opinion , the rest is from the CDC link.
JoseCuervo
New member
Can you post your resume, degrees earned, articles published, and a synopsis of your PhD dissertation?
Thanks.
JoseCuervo
New member
Read an interesting discussion by librarians and teachers how the .gov websites can no longer be considered reliable sources on items of scientific matter as of last Friday. (Climate, health, environment, safety, etc)
Trump has put a hold on all new regulations. That may impact this order. The steel shot ban for waterfowl was phased in during the late 1980's on USF&W Refuges. The complete ban was 1991. Canada followed with a ban in 1999. I have shot many hundreds of ducks and geese with steel shot since the '80's. There was a learning curve for certain !! I have no complaints with hunting migratory birds with steel ( I do not use the expensive bismuth or tungsten ammo). Good science and lots of research supported the ban. If lead bullets are required, I will adapt.
OriginalOscar
Active member
Eliminate government high fructose corn syrup subsidy http://www.businessinsider.com/billions-in-tax-dollars-subsidize-the-junk-food-industry-2012-7
and we have the trifecta; cheaper ammo, better fuel, and healthier public.
I guess I'm at the point of the sky isn't falling and we don't need the govt. trying to regulate every single thing we do. I get it that it's bad for raptors. I get it that we shouldn't ingest lead for our own health's sake. On the other hand, my buddies and I who grew up riding our bikes to the lake every day of the summer to fish, 3 miles, up hill both ways, we would not only close our splitshot on our lines with our teeth but chew on one of the tiny BB split shot from time to time because it was neat how soft they were, or how strong our teeth were I guess. Well, we aren't dead yet, and as one of those same buddies (who drinks and smokes plenty) still says 40 years later, "well, you're gonna die of something eventually if you live long enough" - LOL!!!
And as my Brother says, "Shut up and Fish!" - And as far as the price not being that big of a deal, try buying tungsten jigs instead of lead. We buy tungsten because it's even heavier than lead and falls faster through the water column to the fish for ice fishing, but a tiny 3-5 mm ice jig made of tungsten is $2.75, 3x the price of a lead jig. In the end change is inevitable and we all just have to roll with it and keep doing what we love to do , even if a bunch of suits think they have the right to tell us how and where we can do it.
And as my Brother says, "Shut up and Fish!" - And as far as the price not being that big of a deal, try buying tungsten jigs instead of lead. We buy tungsten because it's even heavier than lead and falls faster through the water column to the fish for ice fishing, but a tiny 3-5 mm ice jig made of tungsten is $2.75, 3x the price of a lead jig. In the end change is inevitable and we all just have to roll with it and keep doing what we love to do , even if a bunch of suits think they have the right to tell us how and where we can do it.
Flatland Crusoe
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Decades of phasing out more hazardous chemicals has inevitably forced research, development and eventually fundamentally better products or at least substitutes at more similar prices across many markets. We have better paint and we have better fuel today that we did decades ago when it was full of lead. The first replacements were maybe not as good, but over time the products got better and the cost came down as economies of scale were created for the new products. Even with Nontoxic shotgun shell we eventually got Hevishot for Turkey hunting which is denser and more deadly allowing greater range or the use of lighter recoiling rounds to the same effect. The cost isn't cheaper, but we actually have a better products available because of lead shot bans.
Shotgunners have overcome much greater challenges physics challenges than rifle shooters will face as they went from from lead to steel shot and overnight the density of their shot went down by 37% whereas going from bimetal rifle bullet to a copper solid only is at 15% loss of density but with the added benefit of better weight retention. Shotgunners needed new chokes and in some cases new barrels to deal with harder shot. Switching from bimetal to mono bullets doesn't require any equipment changes.
I've never heard someone complain that they couldn't afford to fish because they couldn't afford sinkers. I'm pretty sure I lose far more split shot leaving it in the wrong tackle box than from actually fishing. I also think I'm using the same few containers of weights from decades ago.
Regardless of how much you hate big government, environmental protection is one of those task only they can take on. I think that sometimes the government functions to heavily on the punishment rather than incentive side of environmental regulation, but the ends do justify the means.
Shotgunners have overcome much greater challenges physics challenges than rifle shooters will face as they went from from lead to steel shot and overnight the density of their shot went down by 37% whereas going from bimetal rifle bullet to a copper solid only is at 15% loss of density but with the added benefit of better weight retention. Shotgunners needed new chokes and in some cases new barrels to deal with harder shot. Switching from bimetal to mono bullets doesn't require any equipment changes.
I've never heard someone complain that they couldn't afford to fish because they couldn't afford sinkers. I'm pretty sure I lose far more split shot leaving it in the wrong tackle box than from actually fishing. I also think I'm using the same few containers of weights from decades ago.
Regardless of how much you hate big government, environmental protection is one of those task only they can take on. I think that sometimes the government functions to heavily on the punishment rather than incentive side of environmental regulation, but the ends do justify the means.
JoseCuervo
New member
None of this is about keeping you and your buddies alive, nor do any of the "bunch of suits" really care about keeping you alive 1 day longer. You are welcome to eat all the lead you want.
Is what regulations from a "bunch of suits" are all about is keeping YOUR kids, and my kids alive, keeping YOUR grandkids and my grandkids alive, keeping YOUR great-grandkids and my great-grandkids alive.
Try thinking about others for just 1 hour per day, and see if your life changes and your outlook on life changes.
onpoint
Well-known member
Lead Ammo enthusiasts better beware. Kelly Anne's boss foreshadowed policy this morning:
"I'm a very big person on the environment. I've gotten awards on the environment".
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Southwind
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I don't have a problem with it, I've been using monos for since about 2003. Lead is nasty stuff, we have alternatives
belly-deep
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So if the regulations don't pass, who is forcing your kids and grandkids to eat lead?
This is shocking, if true.
James Riley
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Bioaccumulation refers to the accumulation of a toxic chemical in the tissue of a particular organism. Biomagnification refers to the increased concentration of a toxic chemical the higher an animal is on the food chain.
Living organism are exposed to things on the surface of the earth and in water and air. Taking something from underground and spreading it around on the surface or in the water or air can be a good thing or a bad thing, depending upon what it is that is taken out of the ground and spread around on the surface or in the water or air. Lead, not so good. Any de minimis argument, as has already been pointed out, is short-sighted and selfish.
Living organism are exposed to things on the surface of the earth and in water and air. Taking something from underground and spreading it around on the surface or in the water or air can be a good thing or a bad thing, depending upon what it is that is taken out of the ground and spread around on the surface or in the water or air. Lead, not so good. Any de minimis argument, as has already been pointed out, is short-sighted and selfish.
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noharleyyet
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There exists no argument, however de minimus, that shall be exempt from piddle eau de parfum during the off season.
James Riley
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It is Hunt *Talk*, after all. Even if I'm constantly reminded by my stalker that I need not reply.
belly-deep
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Ok, just throw out your bald eagle recipes and you should be fine
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