Football General Talk

[VikingsGuy]

As acknowledged before many factors go into winning a championship, but if all those other factors are the same and one team expects to win they will most likely win.

Football aside, the "hero narrative" of history is far less compelling the more I read and the more I experience.

 

[Gellar]

However much success the Patriots had under Belicheck, they did not win 9 of 10, with Brady.

So why did the Patriots suck after Brady left? Did the coach only want to win then?

In a 18-year span they were in 9 super bowls and won 6. They won 17 division titles and appeared in 11 NFC championship games.

After Brady left did Cam Newton and Mac Jones 110% buy in to what Belichick was preaching? Did the other players on the team 110% buy into that expectation to win?

 

[VikingsGuy]

In a 18-year span they were in 9 super bowls and won 6. They won 17 division titles and appeared in 11 NFC championship games.

After Brady left did Cam Newton and Mac Jones 110% buy in to what Belichick was preaching? Did the other players on the team 110% buy into that expectation to win?

again pushing the narrative far further than data would support

 

[Gellar]

again pushing the narrative far further than data would support

I don't have any data to back that claim up. I am questioning whether Cam Newton's commitment was to the team winning or to himself. Thus, not buying into Belechik's system.

 

[406dn]

In a 18-year span they were in 9 super bowls and won 6. They won 17 division titles and appeared in 11 NFC championship games.

After Brady left did Cam Newton and Mac Jones 110% buy in to what Belichick was preaching? Did the other players on the team 110% buy into that expectation to win?

You're being like a political ideologue. When the outcome doesn't support your premise, someone just did not commit to the cause sufficiently.

 

[Elkmagnet]

JJ obviously agrees...but you're not wrong

To take it a little further Mccarthy doesn't seem to pass the eye test. I'm of the assumption that the potental candidates didn't want to work with Jerrah. As a niners fan the Cowboys will win 10+ next year.
Bak to the 9ers most of the same media won't give Purdy credit because he's just "part of Shanahan's awsome system".
But as @VikingsGuy said the droning for clicks continues.

 

[VikingsGuy]

I don't have any data to back that claim up. I am questioning whether Cam Newton's commitment was to the team winning or to himself. Thus, not buying into Belechik's system.

You don't get to pick one or two "positives" from the thousand of athletes, and one or two "negatives" from thousands of athletes. You also can't rely on media narratives about who cares or doesn't care. So, is it possible someone could do the math and the legwork to make your case? It's possible. In my opinion it is more likely that we over-attribute "want to" differences between those at elite levels. I have seen truly HofF eliteness first hand with people I knew well and in fields I understood deeply in several areas of life. I would say, "they care more than anyone else" is a 50-50 proposition.

 

[JEL]

I liked college but man….

https://www.espn.com/college-footba...-cam-mccormick-granted-ninth-year-eligibility

 

[Keep on]

Some do work out. More often than not, they don’t. McCarthy had all of the tools to win multiple Super Bowls in Green Bay and didn’t. Ask Green Bay fans if they want him back.

I think Dallas actually has a much better McCarthy than Green Bay had. I wouldn't sack him at this point if I were in Jerry's shoes, 12-5 seasons don't come around every year. Something was very wrong in Dallas this past Sunday and can't all be pinned on the coach.
I also don't think McCarthy was the only reason Rodgers and the Pack didn't have more super bowls. Brady was leaving some money on the table at contract time allowing room for some more talent at New England while Aaron would take every dime he could get and went on to demand his had been choices of receivers and OL got to stick around.
Just saying Brady was smart enough to understand what was good for the organization was good for him, not vice versa.
But hell no, I don't ever want to see McCarthy in green again.

 

[VikingsGuy]

OK - back to the point of the thread --

1. Will CJ Stroud continue to be demonstrably better than Bryce Young?
2. After their first full year of NFL play, who will look best Caleb, Jalen or Drake -- who is the next Stroud?

 

[BrentD]

As acknowledged before many factors go into winning a championship, but if all those other factors are the same and one team expects to win they will most likely win.

They all expect to win, yet almost none of them do. How do you explain that? This phenomenon - work hard enough and the world can be yours - entirely ignores that millions of people work their tails off to be something they value immensely, yet they fail. How can that be? This goes back to 'Mericans have very little sense of mathematics and poor critical thinking skills.

 

[VikingsGuy]

I liked college but man….

https://www.espn.com/college-footba...-cam-mccormick-granted-ninth-year-eligibility

Does this make him eligible for a college pension? Pretty sure at this point he has tenure

I did have a buddy who went to undergrad 8 yrs as a full time student and ended up leaving without enough credits to graduate. So he has that honor working for him, which is nice.

 

[VikingsGuy]

How do you explain that?

The obvious way - just keep saying, "what about Brady, what about Cam". Then add some straw argument no one is making that folks that work hard and take their work seriously often do better than those who do neither.

 

[BrentD]

The obvious way - just keep saying, "what about Brady, what about Cam". Then add some straw argument no one is making that folks that work hard and take their work seriously often do better than those who do neither.

I was listening to an interesting interview of a psychologist the other day, on public radio. He was talking about this very thing and how it destroys people because they all buy into "just have to work harder" to be successful. This same mentality comes through loud and clear on HT by the way. You gotta walk further, higher, rougher than anyone else if you want to get a big bull, as if there is some direct correlation r=1.0, between the physical effort you put out and the number of inches on your bull's rack.

Anybody can grow up to be president. So long as they work harder than everyone else to achieve that goal. Don't look in the ditch at all the trainwrecks that died along the way, busting their asses even harder than you busted yours.

 

[noharleyyet]

I think Dallas actually has a much better McCarthy than Green Bay had. I wouldn't sack him at this point if I were in Jerry's shoes, 12-5 seasons don't come around every year. Something was very wrong in Dallas this past Sunday and can't all be pinned on the coach.
I also don't think McCarthy was the only reason Rodgers and the Pack didn't have more super bowls. Brady was leaving some money on the table at contract time allowing room for some more talent at New England while Aaron would take every dime he could get and went on to demand his had been choices of receivers and OL got to stick around.
Just saying Brady was smart enough to understand what was good for the organization was good for him, not vice versa.
But hell no, I don't ever want to see McCarthy in green again.

By 'leaving money on the table' do you mean restructuring the pay out?

 

[seeth07]

OK - back to the point of the thread --

1. Will CJ Stroud continue to be demonstrably better than Bryce Young?
2. After their first full year of NFL play, who will look best Caleb, Jalen or Drake -- who is the next Stroud?

3. Will a team this year follow the GB recipe of drafting a 1st/2nd round QB and then having him sit behind their starter for 2-3 years to give the poor kid a chance? I just looked back the last 4 years and there are ZERO examples of any team trying to do this. The only close exception is the Detroit Lions who have Hendon Hooker that they drafted this year early in round 3.

 

[Keep on]

I was listening to an interesting interview of a psychologist the other day, on public radio. He was talking about this very thing and how it destroys people because they all buy into "just have to work harder" to be successful. This same mentality comes through loud and clear on HT by the way. You gotta walk further, higher, rougher than anyone else if you want to get a big bull, as if there is some direct correlation r=1.0, between the physical effort you put out and the number of inches on your bull's rack.

Anybody can grow up to be president. So long as they work harder than everyone else to achieve that goal. Don't look in the ditch at all the trainwrecks that died along the way, busting their asses even harder than you busted yours.

Yep, so much has to do with happy coincidence in life. You can be the smartest, hardest working dude around but if you land with a bad organization or without a mentor you probably aren't going far.

 

[TOGIE]

how does jokic fit into this theory/debate of needing to have a mindset to win?

that dude hardly even wants to play, and if he wants to win, it's only because he feels like he has to play.

 

[BrentD]

3. Will a team this year follow the GB recipe of drafting a 1st/2nd round QB and then having him sit behind their starter for 2-3 years to give the poor kid a chance? I just looked back the last 4 years and there are ZERO examples of any team trying to do this. The only close exception is the Detroit Lions who have Hendon Hooker that they drafted this year early in round 3.

Maybe you don't need to sit a QB for years to become a star. Maybe you just need to spend ALL of those high draft picks on the 5 in front of him on the field. And a play caller that does not allow only dink-and-dunk plays.

If you do that, I would argue ANY decent college QB can win.

Proof? Well, Brady of course, and Purdy probably.

Brady made sure his line was always PDG, and thus he played for a long time.

Don't buy it? It's the same type of proof many of you are making about winning and losing teams. (but my hypothesis is right ).

However, if I was GM or owner, I'd put 1/2 my payroll into those front 5 and cheap out on the rest.

 

[406dn]

The Cowboys are the gift that keeps on giving. Even after getting bounced out of the playoffs, they are in the news, like their situation warrants the continued coverage.

The next drama since they are going to keep McCarthy...is should Dak get extended, and for how much. Of course they extend him, for too much. Next summer they will talk about all the work he put in and has taken his game to a new level. There will be new pronouncements about how they filled a few gaps with the draft picks.

It will play out very closely to how it went this year.