Cue the Bambification of CO's wolves...

[Gus Chiggins]

WA hunters face problems mostly in arguments that hunting isn't necessary, or can be reduced, for management of cervids because of predators. Your comment basically supports this. It sounds like "wolves are killing MY elk". Most of the US population doesn't care for that argument and we struggle to make a counter argument that can sway overall opinion.

That's a good point.

But that's why I always mention the failure of managing other predators (lions and bear), for about 10 years before wolves came along. Wolves were the cherry on top, not the sole problem.

 

[BrentD]

Depends on where you are. In some areas, the introduction and proliferation, plus (intentional?) lack of adequate management, of large predators including but not limited to wolves, has a substantially detrimental effect on hunting.

Wildlife aren't just for hunting, you know. They aren't just targets being farmed by the Game and Fishes for our shooting pleasure.

 

[Gus Chiggins]

Ok so fight those two things. Bringing wolves back has zero impact on those two things continuing to be an issue moving forward. You are just looking to now use wolves as your excuse

Over time, however, the wolf population will certainly ramp up. It won't stay at the 5 or 10 wolves Oregon donated

 

[BrentD]

Over time, however, the wolf population will certainly ramp up. It won't stay at the 5 or 10 wolves Oregon donated

We can only hope. That's the point after all.

 

[Gus Chiggins]

Wildlife aren't just for hunting, you know. They aren't just targets being farmed by the Game and Fishes for our shooting pleasure.

Correct, and while this is hunt talk, I always take my camera with me because I like to take photos of wildlife. In late October/early November elk season, or any other time of year, I used to see bigger muley bucks. But they're gone. The photo below is one I took from 2011 while elk hunting.

Any bucks I see now in late October/November are forkies and 3 pointers, if that.

Is the lack of big game in certain areas of NE Oregon due to just the wolf factor? No, but I'd argue that decades of no real predator management was a primary factor. I realize a lot of guys on here are ok with wolves, and that's fine especially if it doesn't affect their hunting, but I'm adding my .02.

Edit to add I’d rather see deer, elk and moose out in the woods where I’ve been hiking and hunting for over 30 years. Now most days all I see are ghosts.

 

[seeth07]

Over time, however, the wolf population will certainly ramp up. It won't stay at the 5 or 10 wolves Oregon donated

That means that the habitat is capable of supporting more than 5 though. What's wrong with that?

 

[Gus Chiggins]

We can only hope. That's the point after all.

Sure, but who's wanting that point to be made. A lot of "non hunters".

 

[BrentD]

Sure, but who's wanting that point to be made. A lot of "non hunters".

And me. And lots of other hunters.

 

[Gus Chiggins]

And me. And lots of other hunters.

And that was my point earlier today: as we know, all hunters don't have the same common goals. It'd be nice to be on the same page, but won't happen.

 

[geetar]

THere's almost nothing I hate more than naming wild animals. Doesn't matter the species. Why don't they go name the elk, the deer, etc. It is just so dumb.

It makes me cringe also. Especially the ones on " this years hit list "

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

That means that the habitat is capable of supporting more than 5 though. What's wrong with that?

Sure can and it can also be a healthy population with a hunting season on them for management. Which will never happen in Colorado. It will however cost millions in lawsuits as the years pass.

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

I hope river has a long happy woof life, it's not that woofs fault he is hated. It's human involvement who is at fault.

 

[Hunting Wife]

But when you really, really want to cut to the chase, who ya gonna call? @Hunting Wife.

Every time. Twice on Sundays.

I actually happened to be in Denver last week and talked to a few folks about this, and other CO-centric predator subjects.

Thoughts I guess are:

Wolves were coming anyway. Reintroduction simply advanced the timeline.

The complete lack of any type of plan for management once “recovery” is reached is going to be a problem.

Wolves are prolific. They will reach “recovery” criteria quickly, and from what I’ve seen, the state is woefully behind the curve already in setting sideboards or even opening an option for management, either depredation-related or otherwise. I also don’t think the commission is particularly bothered by that, which is disturbing. There’s going to be a train wreck eventually, both for livestock producers and for wildlife (ungulate) managers in the fairly near future.

 

[Gus Chiggins]

That’s why it will be important for people to help fend off CO Initiative 91.

If over time other types of predator management are watered down or banned, then as the wolf population keeps increasing, with no effective management mechanism implemented (or desired by either voters or wildlife commission), Colorado could turn into a real dumpster fire.

At least from a hunter’s perspective, if that’s where you’re coming from.

 

[Pucky Freak]

Let’s get this thread back on track. Those middle school kids suck.

“Dognapped”
“Ballot”
“Clueless”
“Target”
“Rainbow Ass”

 

[VikingsGuy]

I was never stupid enough to get the JD behind my name.

Says the lobbyist

 

[Ben Lamb]

Says the lobbyist

 

[bayoublaster7527]

I actually happened to be in Denver last week and talked to a few folks about this, and other CO-centric predator subjects.

Thoughts I guess are:

Wolves were coming anyway. Reintroduction simply advanced the timeline.

The complete lack of any type of plan for management once “recovery” is reached is going to be a problem.

Wolves are prolific. They will reach “recovery” criteria quickly, and from what I’ve seen, the state is woefully behind the curve already in setting sideboards or even opening an option for management, either depredation-related or otherwise. I also don’t think the commission is particularly bothered by that, which is disturbing. There’s going to be a train wreck eventually, both for livestock producers and for wildlife (ungulate) managers in the fairly near future.

This is a very accurate description of the situation. The commission will not allow any management of wolves. They removed that portion of the plan despite the recommendation from the working group. They spend most of the commission meetings congratulating each other on doing such a great job. The pro-wolf activists wisely put wolves as a “non-game” species on the ballot initiative to prevent hunting from being used as a management tool. Most commissioners aren’t bothered by the impact of wolves on ungulates and livestock because they believe the pro-wolf propaganda that wolves don’t eat livestock or ungulates in any significant numbers. In fact, many commissioners are convinced that wolves will solve CWD and continue to push this unproven narrative. Their logic usually goes like this: Wyoming, Montana, and Idaho have wolves. Wyoming, Montana, and Idaho still have elk and deer populations. Therefore, wolves have no significant impact on deer and elk. Clearly this an intentional oversimplification that completely ignores the management efforts in Wyoming, Montana, and Idaho. Which brings me to the harsh reality of Colorado currently, the Polis-appointed commissioners don’t care about livestock growers or ungulate managers because Gov Polis doesn’t care about either of those things. Those things matter to rural residents and Gov Polis takes every opportunity to disfavor rural residents.

 

[VikingsGuy]

But when you really, really want to cut to the chase, who ya gonna call? @Hunting Wife.

Every time. Twice on Sundays.

Is this better?

 

[Sasquatchewan]

A bunch of furries will get one named Uwu...