Copper bullets

[mtmuley]

. The 95VLD should stabilize in most also depending on your elevation.

I can vouch for the 95 grain VLD on muleys and antelope. Works well. So does the 80 grain Hammer Hunter. I have a box of 70 grain Hunters to play with next. mtmuley

 

[ImBillT]

Light monos would be great in the .243, because of the length (without having a tighter-twist barrel). Push them fast and they will work very well. I would go with Barnes, just for the price, but stay on the light side with any of them and they will work. Also, try the Accubombs in 100-grain. They should shoot well and give you plenty of penetration.

The AB’s are not fully stable at my home elevation, and that gun is primarily used on whitetails and mule deer near home. Off the top of my head, I’d say that partitions over 85gr aren’t either, but they are a lot closer. I’ve never shot an animal with a partition, but my dad has, as have some of my friends. My wife shot her mule deer this year with 85gr Zipedos. Neither exited, but both made it out the rib cage. It was 99% certain death after the first shot, but I told her to plug it again, and she did so very quickly. Off the top of my head I don’t remember the weight retention, but I checked it, and compared it to some 85gr partitions my dad has recovered. The partitions did have higher weight retention, so I suspect they would have exited fully. A mono would probably penetrate even better. Still, if a 100gr partition will shoot well, then I’ll probably call that tough to beat.

On whitetail I think it would be hard to find an 85gr bullet from a .243Win that wouldn’t work just fine. On mule deer, a little more ooph would be preferred.

 

[ImBillT]

What twist is your wife’s 243?
The 95gr Berger Classic hunter works well in even a 10 twist. The 95VLD should stabilize in most also depending on your elevation. Both are pretty lethal on mule deer.
Also the 105gr Hornady HPBT is another choice that works awesome even in a 10 twist.

It’s a 10” twist. I’ve been considering the Classic Hunter as an option. I was really leaning toward 105gr as a minimum for a Berger on something as big as a mule deer just to be safe. I’ve shot a lot of bullets with an SG under 1.5 at paper with great results, but I’ve decided that’s not ideal on animal.

That gun gets used at 3500’ in the winter. At double that elevation or in warm temps I might feel a little better about bumping it up.

 

[ImBillT]

I can vouch for the 95 grain VLD on muleys and antelope. Works well. So does the 80 grain Hammer Hunter. I have a box of 70 grain Hunters to play with next. mtmuley

I haven’t looked closely, but if I end up going mono, I’ll go as heavy as I can in that twist. Not sure if the 80’s will work or not.

 

[mtmuley]

I'm shooting the 80 grain Hammer in a Ruger tang safety. 243. Didn't check twist, just loaded them. No problems. I know the guys at Hammer have used the 70 grain on deer out to 300 yards. mtmuley

 

[cahunter805]

It’s a 10” twist. I’ve been considering the Classic Hunter as an option. I was really leaning toward 105gr as a minimum for a Berger on something as big as a mule deer just to be safe. I’ve shot a lot of bullets with an SG under 1.5 at paper with great results, but I’ve decided that’s not ideal on animal.

That gun gets used at 3500’ in the winter. At double that elevation or in warm temps I might feel a little better about bumping it up.

I wouldn’t hesitate to use the 95gr on mule deer. They will get the job done. Keep the range within acceptable limits and you will be just fine.
With a 10 twist you would need to probably go 70gr Hammers.

 

[HandgunHunter]

I don’t know if some are missing it but.

With bullets the twist relates to the length of the bullet. For traditional bullets everyone associates that with a particular weight.

With all copper bullets you need to make sure you are looking at length and comparing it to the length of the traditional bullets.

Your load data will also work similar.

 

[sbhooper]

The AB’s are not fully stable at my home elevation, and that gun is primarily used on whitetails and mule deer near home. Off the top of my head, I’d say that partitions over 85gr aren’t either, but they are a lot closer. I’ve never shot an animal with a partition, but my dad has, as have some of my friends. My wife shot her mule deer this year with 85gr Zipedos. Neither exited, but both made it out the rib cage. It was 99% certain death after the first shot, but I told her to plug it again, and she did so very quickly. Off the top of my head I don’t remember the weight retention, but I checked it, and compared it to some 85gr partitions my dad has recovered. The partitions did have higher weight retention, so I suspect they would have exited fully. A mono would probably penetrate even better. Still, if a 100gr partition will shoot well, then I’ll probably call that tough to beat.

On whitetail I think it would be hard to find an 85gr bullet from a .243Win that wouldn’t work just fine. On mule deer, a little more ooph would be preferred.

Why do you think that the elevation is a problem? Doubt it. If the Partitions stabilize, then the Abs will, too. If that particular rifle does not like them, then that is a different issue, but I doubt that elevation affects any bullet in a .243. Long monos can be a problem, in any caliber, without a fast twist, but it is not elevation related. If elevation was an issue, then A LOT of easterners could not hit shit, hunting in the mountains. (which may not all be bullet related, anyway).

 

[cahunter805]

Elevation is a factor of stability. At higher elevation depending on the bullet/velocity a slower twist rate can be used.
It’s technically not elevation but air density and temperature that changes the required twist rate for a given bullet especially if on the ragged edge of stability. Sea level is the worst.
Also a bullet can be Marginally stable but not group well. Not keyholing on paper but just not grouping well.

 

[ImBillT]

Why do you think that the elevation is a problem? Doubt it. If the Partitions stabilize, then the Abs will, too. If that particular rifle does not like them, then that is a different issue, but I doubt that elevation affects any bullet in a .243. Long monos can be a problem, in any caliber, without a fast twist, but it is not elevation related. If elevation was an issue, then A LOT of easterners could not hit shit, hunting in the mountains. (which may not all be bullet related, anyway).

Elevation impacts stability. When I ran partitions and ABs through a stability calculator using my elevation ABs were a fair bit less stable than partitions. IIRC 95gr and 100gr partitions had almost a 1.5SG while 90gr ABs were well under. Of course long monos would be a problem. I don’t want to shoot any bullet that isn’t close to 1.5

 

[sbhooper]

Elevation impacts stability. When I ran partitions and ABs through a stability calculator using my elevation ABs were a fair bit less stable than partitions. IIRC 95gr and 100gr partitions had almost a 1.5SG while 90gr ABs were well under. Of course long monos would be a problem. I don’t want to shoot any bullet that isn’t close to 1.5

Have you actually shot them at the altitude, to verify that there is a problem? It may say there could be a problem, and none really exists.

 

[HandgunHunter]

Altitude can most defiantly be a factor with stability.

 

[sbhooper]

Altitude can most defiantly be a factor with stability.

I understand that it could be a problem, but I, personally, have never noticed a problem. If it is a bad problem, then how would anybody ever be able to shoot at high altitude? Lots of people hunt at high altitude, and I, for one, have never felt like my bullets were affected enough to make a difference at normal ranges. I think that it is pretty easy to get wound up in something, because of hair-splitting data. It sounds to me, like it is kind of like worrying about a hunting rifle that shoots 1 moa, compared to 3/4 moa.

The more data that is out there, the easier it is to get wrapped up in it.

 

[HandgunHunter]

I understand that it could be a problem, but I, personally, have never noticed a problem. If it is a bad problem, then how would anybody ever be able to shoot at high altitude? Lots of people hunt at high altitude, and I, for one, have never felt like my bullets were affected enough to make a difference at normal ranges. I think that it is pretty easy to get wound up in something, because of hair-splitting data. It sounds to me, like it is kind of like worrying about a hunting rifle that shoots 1 moa, compared to 3/4 moa.

The more data that is out there, the easier it is to get wrapped up in it.

The higher you go the more stability you will gain....that may not be the best way to say it but something like that.

If you have a projectile that is near the edge of stability at altitude then go to sea level it may not stabilize.

 

[88man]

I shoot berger I shoot better

 

[cahunter805]

I understand that it could be a problem, but I, personally, have never noticed a problem. If it is a bad problem, then how would anybody ever be able to shoot at high altitude? Lots of people hunt at high altitude, and I, for one, have never felt like my bullets were affected enough to make a difference at normal ranges. I think that it is pretty easy to get wound up in something, because of hair-splitting data. It sounds to me, like it is kind of like worrying about a hunting rifle that shoots 1 moa, compared to 3/4 moa.

The more data that is out there, the easier it is to get wrapped up in it.

The higher in elevation you go the air density is less causing bullets to require less twist to be stable.
Also in terms of trajectory there will be less drop to your bullets path especially at longer ranges.

 

[ImBillT]

Have you actually shot them at the altitude, to verify that there is a problem? It may say there could be a problem, and none really exists.
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Why do you think that the elevation is a problem? Doubt it. If the Partitions stabilize, then the Abs will, too. If that particular rifle does not like them, then that is a different issue, but I doubt that elevation affects any bullet in a .243. Long monos can be a problem, in any caliber, without a fast twist, but it is not elevation related. If elevation was an issue, then A LOT of easterners could not hit shit, hunting in the mountains. (which may not all be bullet related, anyway).



An SG of 1.5 is considered fully stable. Below that, the nose wobbles resulting in a decreased BC which can be calculated. I’ve had guns that shoot .5MOA with proper bullets for the twist shoot groups as big as 10” with SG’s near 1.1. Around 1.0 you start getting keyholes as the bullets tumble in midair. You can shoot great groups with an SG under 1.5. Higher altitude improves stability. At the elevation that gun will get used at, the AB is at an SG of 1.24. 95g and 100gr partitions are both above 1.5, so I’ll probably give 100gr partitions a try first.

Why not shoot a bullet with a low SG on game if it shoot well in paper? Bullets are less stable in the animal than in the air. I don’t want my bullet tumbling through the animal. I want it nose forward doing what it’s supposed to do. There were a lot .224 bullets doing weird things in ‘nam before the military tightened the twist on the M-16.

An SG of 1.5 is considered fully stable. Below that, the nose wobbles resulting in a decreased BC which can be calculated. I’ve had guns that shoot .5MOA with proper bullets for the twist shoot groups as big as 10” with SG’s near 1.1. Around 1.0 you start getting keyholes as the bullets tumble in midair. You can shoot great groups with an SG under 1.5. Higher altitude improves stability. At the elevation that gun will get used at, the AB is at an SG of 1.24. 95g and 100gr partitions are both above 1.5, so I’ll probably give 100gr partitions a try first.

Why not shoot a bullet with a low SG on game if it shoot well in paper? Bullets are less stable in the animal than in the air. I don’t want my bullet tumbling through the animal. I want it nose forward doing what it’s supposed to do. There were a lot .224 bullets doing weird things in ‘nam before the military tightened the twist on the M-16.

 

[ImBillT]

I shoot berger I shoot better

I love Berger. I’m sure you know. Maybe that 87VLD would be great on a mule deer. With a bullet that blows up as violently as a Berger, I’d prefer to stick with normally accepted bullet weights for the animal I’m shooting, or at least have a very high SD. I’d feel much more comfortable with a 105 if I’m going to shoot a Berger at a mule deer. If going lighter, I’d prefer the bullet was designed with penetration in mind. It’s easy enough for me to just use a different gun. For my wife, I’d rather just get a beefier bullet.

The 85gr Zipedos almost exited. I’m sure an 85 Partition would be fine, but I’ll gladly up the weight.

 

[ImBillT]

I understand that it could be a problem, but I, personally, have never noticed a problem. If it is a bad problem, then how would anybody ever be able to shoot at high altitude? Lots of people hunt at high altitude, and I, for one, have never felt like my bullets were affected enough to make a difference at normal ranges. I think that it is pretty easy to get wound up in something, because of hair-splitting data. It sounds to me, like it is kind of like worrying about a hunting rifle that shoots 1 moa, compared to 3/4 moa.

The more data that is out there, the easier it is to get wrapped up in it.

Higher altitude equals better stability. Warmer temps equal better stability. Why are you so interested in me shooting a bullet that’s meant for a 9” twist in a 10” twist barrel? When that rifle was made it was hard to find a .243” bullet that wouldn’t stabilize in a 10” twist. Long skinny bullets with high BC’s weren’t the norm for another 40-50years. Most .243Wins today come with a 9 1/8” twist or tighter.

That gun will probably never see the mountains, and will almost always be used after Thanksgiving. So it will be cold, and at 3500’ or below. I’m not interested in shooting an animal with a bullet with an SG under 1.4. If it was about groups, I’d try it. I have shot excellent groups with bullets having an SG under 1.4.

 

[cahunter805]

I love Berger. I’m sure you know. Maybe that 87VLD would be great on a mule deer. With a bullet that blows up as violently as a Berger, I’d prefer to stick with normally accepted bullet weights for the animal I’m shooting, or at least have a very high SD. I’d feel much more comfortable with a 105 if I’m going to shoot a Berger at a mule deer. If going lighter, I’d prefer the bullet was designed with penetration in mind. It’s easy enough for me to just use a different gun. For my wife, I’d rather just get a beefier bullet.

The 85gr Zipedos almost exited. I’m sure an 85 Partition would be fine, but I’ll gladly up the weight.

The 95gr Berger has a good SD and will stabilize in 10 twist! Worth a look at.