I got to talking it over with another Hunt Talker and thought I would post the question and see what comes back. Why are "Western" tags/licenses/applications so mystifying/baffling/complicated? I have been out West and very much love it and will be returning so please don't take this with any negativity whatsoever. I have also dealt and will continue to deal with tags/licenses/applications so I do have some experience. The question I ask stems from growing up and still living in the Midwest. Assuming a few generalities, I can either go to my local bait shop or Walmart and pick up a hunting license and/or deer tag and be on my merry way. Even when traveling to a nearby state within 10 minutes of glancing through the hunting and fishing guide for any given year I know what I need to purchase and where I can use it. Intuition tells me it's the diversity of species out West and also limited animal populations. But I thought I would get some of your thoughts on the matter.
Application Complication
- Thread starter WestT
- Start date
There are so many factors at play within the west. The biggest is supply and demand. There are more people who want to shoot critters than can be accommodated. Throw in limited entry hunts, depredation hunts, archery/ML/Gun seasons, fluctuating game populations, general units, (I am sure I am missing a bunch) and it gets complicated quickly. Each state has its own methods to try and make it fair for the general public to get both quantity and quality of tags.
The complexity does do this. It weeds out some of the chuckleheads. If you don't put in the time and effort to plan it out and understand it, you are more likely to make a mistake and the odds then go up for the guys who do plan. Kind of a survival of the fittest thing.
The complexity does do this. It weeds out some of the chuckleheads. If you don't put in the time and effort to plan it out and understand it, you are more likely to make a mistake and the odds then go up for the guys who do plan. Kind of a survival of the fittest thing.
sagebrush
Active member
Limited animal populations - bingo.
Washington Hunter
Well-known member
The complications are due to the wildlife departments trying to provide as much hunting opportunity as possible while keeping success rates low enough so that the harvest each year is not excessive. To do this they need to set the seasons based on the timing of the rut and normal weather patterns. They also may need to coordinate open seasons for the various species so that there aren't too many hunters in the field at one time.
I don't really think it's that hard to figure out but I've been hunting the western states for over 30 years. I could see why it might be much more confusing to someone who comes from a state where pretty much the only big game animal to hunt are whitetail deer.
I don't really think it's that hard to figure out but I've been hunting the western states for over 30 years. I could see why it might be much more confusing to someone who comes from a state where pretty much the only big game animal to hunt are whitetail deer.
Your provincialism as well as your ass is showing in that last sentence.
shootbrownelk
Well-known member
How so? He's just stating an obvious fact. Deer or Bear. Pretty simple.
Your intuition is correct.
When you have scarce public resources, people who have a stake in those resources, either financially, culturally, or otherwise, are going to find some very elaborate manners by which to allocate that scarce and highly coveted resource.
The regulations in each state are as varied as the citizens themselves. Which is to be expected when you have wildlife considered as a state purview under the 10th Amendment.
I wish it was not so, but it is. So given that, I've invested the mountains of time necessary to be versed in how it works for states/species I am interested in. Over time, you will get comfortable with it and your buddies will rely on you to do that homework for them.
Washington Hunter
Well-known member
Sorry if I hurt your feelings. It certainly wasn't meant as a put down. The fact that there are several different big game animals with hunting seasons is one of the reasons it gets complicated. But that's just my opinion. If you don't agree that's fine. I sure didn't expect to be called an ass over that. Next time I'll just keep my opinions to myself.
My bad then. I took it as a slight to folks who live "not west". Bad morning here. I should have posted less strongly.
basal_area
New member
Basically what all of these allocation schemes boil down to are ways to allocate a scarce resource without using markets. For example if I want a new rifle I can just go to gunbroker.com or my local sporting goods store and find the resource (a firearm) that I'm looking for, and exchange it for another resource (money) that I have. With hunting opportunity, we've decided that such a system would be bad and thus have created these ridiculously complicated schemes that we think are more fair (arguable, but that's how it's done).
Topgun 30-06
Active member
Was just discussing something like this with a colleague earlier this week. The way I've come to look at it is that the states go through an exercise to more or less balance the below:
"Opportunity", "Quality", "Revenue", "Loyalty" against the "Supply" of tags
First - they do it at a Macro (statewide) level, then they refine their model and adjust it within each Unit/Region since there are such large differences in Supply, habitat, access, quality, etc within even a handful of miles. Some examples:
- If they ignore loyalty (e.g. New Mexico), that makes the equation simpler and allows for things like the 'look at all choices' model.
- If they highly prioritize 'Loyalty' and 'Opportunity' (e.g. Colorado)', and have a relatively large Supply, then Quality influence drops (generally speaking, of course) as well as Revenue. To offset the revenue loss from the draw, they allow OTC hunting for High Supply species/units.
- If the Supply of tags overall is low (e.g. Nevada Elk), then the equation is simpler to balance since Opportunity can (again, very generally speaking) be ignored.
- Wyoming adds a second tier to increasing revenue with the 'special' draw which prioiritizes revenue over loyalty for those folks willing to pay more for better odds.
- AZ flat out addresses loyalty with their additional point for repeat applicants (which only marginally affects the equation for the top-end hunts but can theoretically be very useful in middle-tier units).
Not a perfect description/equation by any means, but those are 4 of the main pillars the various Western Wildlife departments are looking at. I think it's very interesting that all of the Western states have come up with completely different solutions.
On the other side of the country, it's a much simpler equation since the Supply Side is relatively unconstrained for big game except for the OIL species.
Once the republicans succeedd in getting our public lands transfered to the states the states will sell them to the highest bidder. Then they can start farming deer like they do back east on everyone's 40 acre parcels.
Good luck finding public land to hunt on. You will have to pay to hunt a farm somewhere. Also be careful you don't shoot a big buck, they will only want you to shoot a "management buck". Make sure you stay in your blind until after dark and the deer are gone, we don't want our deer feeding in the food plots to get wary of the blinds. Also you are not allowed to gut your deer in the field. The other deer will become wary.
This is why people want to come out west to hunt and this is why tags are so hard to come by. A limited amount of animals and tags and hundreds or even thousands of people willing to apply for a chance to draw one.
Good luck finding public land to hunt on. You will have to pay to hunt a farm somewhere. Also be careful you don't shoot a big buck, they will only want you to shoot a "management buck". Make sure you stay in your blind until after dark and the deer are gone, we don't want our deer feeding in the food plots to get wary of the blinds. Also you are not allowed to gut your deer in the field. The other deer will become wary.
This is why people want to come out west to hunt and this is why tags are so hard to come by. A limited amount of animals and tags and hundreds or even thousands of people willing to apply for a chance to draw one.
LopeHunter
Well-known member
There are annoying hurdles to apply in some states successfully.
Washington state is not a popular place for non-residents to apply but applicants wanting to hunt elk or deer have to do a two step process. Before you select the hunt codes, you have to make a decision that will actually eliminate a portion of your hunt code choices. Pick a weapon and region of the state as the first state. Purchase that general permit. Once you have the permit, you can go attach hunt codes but only the hunt codes that match (say a rifle hunt in a unit on the West side of the state and then match that for your other choices). Simpler would be to have this all in one online step.
Oregon will show hunt codes and allow you to apply as a NR even though the single NR tag for the unit will NOT be available in the applicant draw for that hunt code that year. Outfitters get that tag in alternating years.
Other states will have application deadlines prior to officially setting tag numbers.
These are all hurdles that are fair since we all on the same boat but dang is frustrating.
Once you have a tag in hand then gets complicated as to if you wear orange or not or if orange mesh is okay or orange camo is okay. I can live with those issues since I am responsible to know the law.
The application hurdles, though, are annoying.
Washington state is not a popular place for non-residents to apply but applicants wanting to hunt elk or deer have to do a two step process. Before you select the hunt codes, you have to make a decision that will actually eliminate a portion of your hunt code choices. Pick a weapon and region of the state as the first state. Purchase that general permit. Once you have the permit, you can go attach hunt codes but only the hunt codes that match (say a rifle hunt in a unit on the West side of the state and then match that for your other choices). Simpler would be to have this all in one online step.
Oregon will show hunt codes and allow you to apply as a NR even though the single NR tag for the unit will NOT be available in the applicant draw for that hunt code that year. Outfitters get that tag in alternating years.
Other states will have application deadlines prior to officially setting tag numbers.
These are all hurdles that are fair since we all on the same boat but dang is frustrating.
Once you have a tag in hand then gets complicated as to if you wear orange or not or if orange mesh is okay or orange camo is okay. I can live with those issues since I am responsible to know the law.
The application hurdles, though, are annoying.
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