anybody shoot a 25-06 ?

[JB Florida]

Mine is a killing machine!
its lifetime record on game is now 36 for 38!
....I know, I know .....I had to shoot one of them twice.

Anyone else like this caliber for bambi's?
JB

 

[danr55]

JB, My partner is a 25-06 fan. His preferred bullet is a 117 gr. boat tail. I shoot a 6.5-06 and a 257 Weatherby. Close as I can come.

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Dan AZ www.huntandlodge.com

 

[JB Florida]

hey Dan,

Does he use it for small game only.
It's probably too small for elk...right?

I use the 100 ballistic tips.

Hey, Samta brought me that spotting scope!
Good Call !

JB

 

[Calif. Hunter]

JB Florida - my buddy likes magnums, but his biggest elk, a 7x7, was shot with a .25-06, 120 gr. bullet at slightlyover 200 yards. How much difference is there between a .25-06 wiht a 120 gr bullet and a .270 with a 130 gr bullet? Just put the bullet in the right place. (Now I am NOT advocating anything like a .223 for elk, though! Let's say "a reasonable bullet" in the right place.)

[This message has been edited by Calif. Hunter (edited 01-03-2001).]

 

[Delw]

25-06's were used in washington state alot in the late 70's for elk. I have 2 and like them,I wounded a very big buck up in the kaibab with one, but later I figured it was the bullet used. the only thing I use it for anymore is coyote's. I like my .243 for deer and antelope.

Delw

 

[JB Florida]

Calif. Hunter

No, there is really not much difference
IF you compare those 2 bullets.
And I would not hesitate to shoot an elk with mine at close range.....BUT, I really think it's a little on the lite side.
My first and only elk was taken with a 270 with 150gr Nosler partitions. At about 250 yards, That old Joker took 2 thru the lungs on one side then turned and took another in the same spot on the other side while he Bugled. No exit holes, but dead is dead.
I really thought after that A bigger gun is in order for elk. Judging from that one experience, Elk are tough animals!
I saw a fellow in the camp shoot a good bull
(from camp) At close to 600yards with a 243
Five shots were solid in the lungs, one was
right behind.....That old guy could sure shoot...BUT, that caliber has very little left at 600 yards.

[This message has been edited by JB Florida (edited 01-04-2001).]

 

[Calif. Hunter]

JB FLorida - It was kind of a rhetorical question. He usually shoots a .300 Wthby for elk, with a 7mm Mag as a backup rifle. He is currently having a .338-378 built to use as his primary elk rifle. He was actually out hunting mule deer, (had his elk, tag, though) and ran into the elk "accidently." He just didn't expect to see a bull in the area he was hunting. He has extreme confidence in the accuracy of his .25-06, so took a broadside shot when it was presnted. Neither he nor I would suggest that a .25-06 be used as a primary elk rifle, but there are those who swear by them. For myself, I don't want to have to pass on an elk due to a bad shot angle...that wil probably be my only opportunity for the year! I myself have a .270 for deer and antelope, but I just don't see much difference between it and the .25-06.

 

[danr55]

You know, if you judge the adequacy of Elk rifles by the size of the Elk you've seen taken, then, according to Jim Carmicheal, the best Elk caliber in the world is 250 Savage. He tells a story about being Elk hunting and getting caught in a storm. He finds a Basque Sheepherder and takes shelter in his tent. During the storm, a herd of Elk move through the camp. The sheepherder, trying to get a cow for campmeat, sticks a Savage model 99 in 250 Savage out the front of the tent and shoots. Well, he missed the cow but shot the largets bull the Carmicheal had ever seen. The elk fell dead. I don't think I would hunt Elk with a 250 Savage.

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Dan AZ www.huntandlodge.com

 

[JB Florida]

Calif. Hunter

I was not giving you a hard time.
Neither was I preaching.
I'm sure his gun is accurate......
Also I'm certain if he is a Good shot he would probably never have a problem with it.

I know mine is sure accurate, in fact I came across another in the same caliber the other day. The one I have had for years is a Sendaro. This new one is a Browning a-bolt. I hope its even half as accurate as the other.

AND WOW,
A 338-378 should really put the whammy on an elk!

By the way, My opinion is different on those 2 calibers. I first should tell you in Alabama & Florida we have a long season &
A LOT of doe Tags.
My first rifle was a 270, still use it some.
Most white tails shot(double lung) will travel 50 to 100 yards after hit with the 270
I have killed over 100 deer with it.
The 25-06 is different though.
with the same shot placement, its Very Rare for them to take another step. In fact of the 36 deer it's taken, only 3 traveled after the shot!
I Have NEVER seen anything like it!
I was hoping the 300 win mag I got last summer would have the same kind of performance on game....but so far (3 deer & some stuff in Africa) I'm a little dissapointed that it does not drop them like the 25. However, I will say it is EASY to trail one of our small deer hit with
a 300 Magnum.

I really have no Idea why the 25 -06 performs so well!
later guys,
JB

 

[danr55]

JB, The answer to your WHY question is "hydrostatic shock". It has been proven, beyond exception, that a small projectile, travelling at a high rate of speed, that erupts violently on impact, will, as long as it does not hit some hard tissue, cause more damage over a greater area by creating a shock wave throught the fluid soaked soft tissue than a larger slower projectile that hits hits that same soft tissue or that hits hard tissue. I don't know if you understand the term Hydrostatic shock. If not, and you need or want an explanation, let me know.

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Dan AZ www.huntandlodge.com

 

[Calif. Hunter]

No problem, JB - I didn't take what you said as "preaching." I also do not advocate small calibers for elk. I knew a guy who used a .220 Swift for all his hunting, including a very large black bear. He would actually shoot for the eye! Now he had success, but I would never agree with him. I've seen the .25-06 kill large hogs very well, and they can take a lot of killing if not hit well the first time. Sometimes I think the .25-06 does well because it is at the "high" end, velocity-wise, for the caliber, compared to a .250 Savage or .257 Roberts...both fine calibers, too, within their limitations. There is, of course, two schools of thought on bulllets and calibers concerning big bullets and penetration versus high velocity and expansion. With the evolution of premium bullets, we have even a third theory now...higher velocity and improved penetration. I think it's a matter of the right shot placement, although violent expansion, like a Sierra softpoint or Nosler Ballistic Tip from a high velocity round, kills quite dramatically so long as you have an ideal shot angle. (I've seen one hog shot with a Glaser Safety slug from a .30-06 in a chest cavity situation, and the internal organs were like soup, but I wouldn't suggest that round for pig.) From a bad angle, obviously you need penetration. This is probably why bullets like the Nosler Partition, which expands well but has the rear core hold together for penetration, is a good compromise for most of us. Most .25 caliber bullets are also a compromise, trying to work at .250 Savage velocity as well as .25-06 speeds. Thus, they probably expand more dramatically from a .25-06. The only other common round in .277 is the .270 Weatherby, and it's not that common, so most .277 bullets are designed with the .270 Win in mind. In my opinion, the reason for the more effective "drop at the shot" results with the .25-06 on that classic double-lung shot are due to the bullets used. A Ballistic tip from a .270 may work just as well as a Corelokt or Interlock or Grand Slam from a .25-06 on a broadside, double-lung shot. Hell, who knows? That's why we keep shooting, trying different bullets, and buying new rifles! (And keeps designers and manufacturers busy coming up with new bullets and cartridge designs!)

 

[JB Florida]

Got it !
Thank you Sir.
So how small a projectile do I need for the 300 Winchester Magnum?
Or is it trial & error.

I have heard of similar results from a
70grain bullet in a 243 too.
I reload my sisters 243 but use a larger bullet.

 

[Calif. Hunter]

I go with the 180 gr Nosler Partition or Grand Slam in my .300 Weatherby, again as a compromise. I wish I could predict what kind of shot I'm gonna get and tailor my load just for that! Since I can't do that, I try to use a bullet of sufficient weight and construction to penetrate and yet still expand. If I knew I was gonna get only a Texas Heart Shot, then I'd go with a "super-premium" 220 gr or even a Barnes 250 gr! If I knew I was gonna get a broadside double-lung shot, I'd be comfortable with a 150 gr Hornady. Chambo likes the 165 gr in his 300 Wthby, and Moosie likes the 150 gr in his 300 Win, and they've both had much more REAL success than I have (and so have you, JB!)...so now I hope I don't sound like I'm lecturing or preaching! I'm just talking guns and BS'ing with my buddies, right?

 

[danr55]

Well JB, I can't tell you because I don't know. I can figure it on paper, but when applied in the real world, the results are different. If you could push a 180 grain partition at about 4300 fps, you would see a very similar result. If you push a 180 grain Scirocco at about 3200 fps, you will see a very similar result. Why? because of the impact shock of the carbolite tip when it's forced back into the cavity behind it. With the Scirroco, the core of the bullet is bonded to the jacket, subsequently it will not explode and separate like the older Nosler Ballistic Tips did. They say that the newer ones won't do that as readily as the older ones did. If you look close, the heavier for the caliber ballistic tip bullets are marked as big game bullets. The lighter ones a varmint bullets. Anyway, I am building a 6.5 STW and I intend to work up loads for the 156 grain Hammerhead bullets from Norma. If I can find any, I will also try to work up loads for the 164 grain TIG bullets from RWS. Last time I looked, they didn't import them any longer. We'll see.

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Dan AZ www.huntandlodge.com

 

[JB Florida]

Thanks for your thoughts guys!

I loaded some more 25-06 ballistic tips and shot them after the morning hunt today.
I went to a different powder and the same bullet marked 2.5" HIGHER at 100 yards!
The groups opened WAY up though.

I may have to try the 180 grain Scirocco in the 300 Win Mag. I just got a box last week.

Does anybody use muzzle brakes.....I ordered my 300 with one because my wife wanted to shoot a zebra....Damn that thing.
I have started taking ear plugs with me when I hunt with it.
Perhaps I can get a cap tp fit the threads,
need to call about the I guess.

Oh Dan, We occasionally find a ballistic tip when we dress deer at camp. I have weighed a lot of them and most retain 75% plus weight.

Have a great evening!
JB

 

[danr55]

Thanks for that JB. 75% weight retention is better than most bullets do. Email me at home and give me the load and bullet you normally shoot. I will do a little research and see if I can work a comparable load that should yeild better accuracy than you got this morning. Tell me about your rifle, scope and specifics on case mfr. and primer.

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Dan AZ www.huntandlodge.com

 

[JB Florida]

Will Do Dan !

I leave all my loading at the farm.
So when i head back at the end of the week
I'll bring the info with me.

Only 23 days of deer seaon remaining!

JB