300 unlimited

[Porcupine Godfather]

Looking to backpack into the unlimited unit,, planning on finding rams I saw on the northern side in November,, has anyone seen these rams earlier in the sesson?

 

[Cav1]

I did #300 the past two seasons. Beautiful country and I had the time of my life running around up there but I never saw a single adult ram. Hunted alot in the Ramshorn-Fortress-Twin Peaks area and saw sheep every day...my record was 70!...but all ewes, lambs and juveniles. Quite a few mountain goats in the same area. Didn't see much glassing north towards Windy Pass except for elk, a few stray mulies, and a lone mountain goat. Glassing south with a Swarovski spotter I was amazed at how many hunters I saw down towards the Park line, almost always because they were silhouetted against the sky. The last 3 days I hunted the Skyline Trail along the Park boundary from Buffalo Horn up towards Bighorn Peak. The only time I saw two sets of tracks that looked like they could have been big rams was right on a ridgetop with the park boundary running right through the middle of it. I just didn't want to take a shot anywhere close to the line and bagged it after that. I did an August scouting trip further north and tried to glass from up top of Eagelhead but didn't see much before I got chased off the top by a violent thunderstorm. I read a study on the South Gallatins that talked about the Sheep Mountain, Fortress-Ramshorn, and Point-of-Rocks herds (the latter is usually on private land towards the river). I honestly have no idea if there are resident sheep further north. The same report said the Point-of-Rocks bunch migrates up towards Hyalite later in the year. For whatever it's worth, I heard from a couple of different Parkies and USFS guys that the rams associated with the Sheep Mountain and Fortress herds tend to still hang inside the park during that early September season.

 

[Porcupine Godfather]

I did #300 the past two seasons. Beautiful country and I had the time of my life running around up there but I never saw a single adult ram. Hunted alot in the Ramshorn-Fortress-Twin Peaks area and saw sheep every day...my record was 70!...but all ewes, lambs and juveniles. Quite a few mountain goats in the same area. Didn't see much glassing north towards Windy Pass except for elk, a few stray mulies, and a lone mountain goat. Glassing south with a Swarovski spotter I was amazed at how many hunters I saw down towards the Park line, almost always because they were silhouetted against the sky. The last 3 days I hunted the Skyline Trail along the Park boundary from Buffalo Horn up towards Bighorn Peak. The only time I saw two sets of tracks that looked like they could have been big rams was right on a ridgetop with the park boundary running right through the middle of it. I just didn't want to take a shot anywhere close to the line and bagged it after that. I did an August scouting trip further north and tried to glass from up top of Eagelhead but didn't see much before I got chased off the top by a violent thunderstorm. I read a study on the South Gallatins that talked about the Sheep Mountain, Fortress-Ramshorn, and Point-of-Rocks herds (the latter is usually on private land towards the river). I honestly have no idea if there are resident sheep further north. The same report said the Point-of-Rocks bunch migrates up towards Hyalite later in the year. For whatever it's worth, I heard from a couple of different Parkies and USFS guys that the rams associated with the Sheep Mountain and Fortress herds tend to still hang inside the park during that early September season.

Thanx,, I think lower down, on the big creek / rock creek divide is where I will be

 

[buffybr]

I hunted 300 in 1999. It was the last unlimited tag that I bought. A friend of mine had killed a good ram in the basin just north of Bighorn Peak the previous year, and my friend gave me the rundown on that area. I took one horse in, and my son and I camped near a spring about a mile east of Bighorn basin. We went in 2 days before the opening and spent one day scouting around our camp and the second day glassing the basin. The ridge line in that area is the boundary between Yellowstone NP on the south and Gallatin NF on the north. The sheep continually wander back and forth across that ridge.

The day we glassed the basin we saw 2 mountain goats in the timber below us, a black bear in the basin bottom, a group of ewes and young rams, and a nice full curl ram feeding about 50 yards below us. I had high hopes for opening morning the next day.

We got to our spot in the dark on opening morning, and before daylight we saw flashlights and heard 8 outfitters horses carrying his hunters walking around the middle of the basin. Four of the horses and their riders stayed at the center of the west side of the basin and the other 4 rode over by us. When the basin opened up to daylight, the big meadow on the west side of the basin contained 4 different tent camps that weren't there the previous afternoon.

The small band of ewes and young rams grazed close enough to my son and I that we could hear them biting off and chewing the grass that they were eating. About mid-morning some hikers climbed Bighorn Peak from the Gallatin River trailhead, and when they reached the top they yelled and screamed of their accomplishment that could be heard throughout the basin. There was also about a dozen orange pumpkins walking everywhere around the basin. About noon two more riders on horseback apparently brought lunches from the outfitters camp up to their hunters and guides that were in around the basin.

The second day of the season was pretty much a repeat without the hikers. From my vantage point I could see over the ridge on the west side of Bighorn basin and to a ridge inside the Park. I could see 3 nice rams on that ridge in the Park. Other than the nice ram that I saw the afternoon before the season opened, I never saw another legal ram outside of the Park.

Along with the outfitter and all of the other hunters in Bighorn basin, the local FWP game warden stopped by our camp and alerted us to a large male grizzly that had been seen not far north of our camp, a YNP ranger who was dressed in full camo stopped by our camp to check our food storage and lecture us about not going inside the Park with my rifle and dog, and another YNP ranger brought a pack string of food and supplies to the ranger(s) that were patrolling the park boundary.

I can't remember if back then that unit was a 5 or 10 day sheep season, but some time after I got home I talked to a friend at FWP, and no rams were killed in that part of 300, and a couple of the outfitters hunters had been cited for shooting at rams that were inside the Park.

 

[Porcupine Godfather]

Yes, it sounds discouraging

 

[Cav1]

buffybr's tale reminded me...I was glassing from a finger of timber leading up towards North Twin Peak. There's a sort of rock-walled sanger someone built on top of Ramshorn Peak. There were two hunters in it and unlike many others who were standing around silhouetted against the sky these guys had crept into it prone and stayed down, removing just a few rocks from the wall, just enough to peek through with optics. Then about 1100 a group of nine day-hikers in shorts and T-shirts showed up and stood on the peak all around them for the better part of an hour, laughing and talking and pointing and gesturing and taking pictures and eating and drinking. Another hazard of that early September season.

My scouting trip to Golden Trout Lakes and Eaglehead in August was worse. There must have been 40-50 people camped around the lakes and all the trails were crowded with hikers and their dogs. Too close to BozAngeles.

 

[buffybr]

...My scouting trip to Golden Trout Lakes and Eaglehead in August was worse. There must have been 40-50 people camped around the lakes and all the trails were crowded with hikers and their dogs. Too close to BozAngeles.

Wow, the last time I camped at Golden Trout Lakes we were the only people there. Must have been the good old days...

 

[Cav1]

First time I'd been up there in about 20 years. The road is still pretty crappy but that no longer seems to be an effective deterrent. (Says the guy who's going up the Boulder....)

 

[geetar]

First time I'd been up there in about 20 years. The road is still pretty crappy but that no longer seems to be an effective deterrent. (Says the guy who's going up the Boulder....)
[/QUOTE
Suitable for passenger cars right?

 

[diamond hitch]

My first wilderness project was the Absaroka in 1974. I remember inventorying all the mines in the Independence basin in September. At that time we were staying at the FS cabin (Box Canyon) at the end of the main road and driving up each morning. That road rated the second worst road in Montana. The first being the road into Tizer basin in the Elkhorns from Jeffersonson city. When I returned in 89 it had degraded substantialy and my last trip in the 90s where we had to part the crowds of ding dongs in shorts walking up the road removed the area in my mind from primative and placed it into the absurd catagory. It sounds like the circus has continued to degrade.

 

[The Hedgehog]

Friend of mine hunted this unit in mid 90s and had similar stories. It never sounded appealing to me after hearing about it.
I guess it’s desirable to give an unlimited number of hunters a chance at a sheep vs. a limited number of hunters a good hunting experience.

I hunted 300 in 1999. It was the last unlimited tag that I bought. A friend of mine had killed a good ram in the basin just north of Bighorn Peak the previous year, and my friend gave me the rundown on that area. I took one horse in, and my son and I camped near a spring about a mile east of Bighorn basin. We went in 2 days before the opening and spent one day scouting around our camp and the second day glassing the basin. The ridge line in that area is the boundary between Yellowstone NP on the south and Gallatin NF on the north. The sheep continually wander back and forth across that ridge.

The day we glassed the basin we saw 2 mountain goats in the timber below us, a black bear in the basin bottom, a group of ewes and young rams, and a nice full curl ram feeding about 50 yards below us. I had high hopes for opening morning the next day.

We got to our spot in the dark on opening morning, and before daylight we saw flashlights and heard 8 outfitters horses carrying his hunters walking around the middle of the basin. Four of the horses and their riders stayed at the center of the west side of the basin and the other 4 rode over by us. When the basin opened up to daylight, the big meadow on the west side of the basin contained 4 different tent camps that weren't there the previous afternoon.

The small band of ewes and young rams grazed close enough to my son and I that we could hear them biting off and chewing the grass that they were eating. About mid-morning some hikers climbed Bighorn Peak from the Gallatin River trailhead, and when they reached the top they yelled and screamed of their accomplishment that could be heard throughout the basin. There was also about a dozen orange pumpkins walking everywhere around the basin. About noon two more riders on horseback apparently brought lunches from the outfitters camp up to their hunters and guides that were in around the basin.

The second day of the season was pretty much a repeat without the hikers. From my vantage point I could see over the ridge on the west side of Bighorn basin and to a ridge inside the Park. I could see 3 nice rams on that ridge in the Park. Other than the nice ram that I saw the afternoon before the season opened, I never saw another legal ram outside of the Park.

Along with the outfitter and all of the other hunters in Bighorn basin, the local FWP game warden stopped by our camp and alerted us to a large male grizzly that had been seen not far north of our camp, a YNP ranger who was dressed in full camo stopped by our camp to check our food storage and lecture us about not going inside the Park with my rifle and dog, and another YNP ranger brought a pack string of food and supplies to the ranger(s) that were patrolling the park boundary.

I can't remember if back then that unit was a 5 or 10 day sheep season, but some time after I got home I talked to a friend at FWP, and no rams were killed in that part of 300, and a couple of the outfitters hunters had been cited for shooting at rams that were inside the Park.

 

[buffybr]

I did #300 the past two seasons. Beautiful country and I had the time of my life running around up there but I never saw a single adult ram. Hunted alot in the Ramshorn-Fortress-Twin Peaks area and saw sheep every day...my record was 70!...but all ewes, lambs and juveniles. Quite a few mountain goats in the same area. Didn't see much glassing north towards Windy Pass except for elk, a few stray mulies, and a lone mountain goat. Glassing south with a Swarovski spotter I was amazed at how many hunters I saw down towards the Park line, almost always because they were silhouetted against the sky. The last 3 days I hunted the Skyline Trail along the Park boundary from Buffalo Horn up towards Bighorn Peak. The only time I saw two sets of tracks that looked like they could have been big rams was right on a ridgetop with the park boundary running right through the middle of it. I just didn't want to take a shot anywhere close to the line and bagged it after that. I did an August scouting trip further north and tried to glass from up top of Eagelhead but didn't see much before I got chased off the top by a violent thunderstorm. I read a study on the South Gallatins that talked about the Sheep Mountain, Fortress-Ramshorn, and Point-of-Rocks herds (the latter is usually on private land towards the river). I honestly have no idea if there are resident sheep further north. The same report said the Point-of-Rocks bunch migrates up towards Hyalite later in the year. For whatever it's worth, I heard from a couple of different Parkies and USFS guys that the rams associated with the Sheep Mountain and Fortress herds tend to still hang inside the park during that early September season.

Yes, sheep can be found almost anywhere along the Gallatin Divide, through Unit 304, and I know of confirmed sightings of sheep that have crossed I-90 and up into the Bridger Mountains.

 

[YoungGun]

Yes, sheep can be found almost anywhere along the Gallatin Divide, through Unit 304, and I know of confirmed sightings of sheep that have crossed I-90 and up into the Bridger Mountains.

Those critters sure wander- I for one wouldn't mind seeing a permanent herd in the Bridgers and the Crazies. I talked to a guy from Melville who told a story of a ram that was collared at the Stillwater mine as a yearling, proceeded to live up the Boulder for a few years before moving over to Rock Creek for the majority of his adult life. When the ram died, the collar was recovered outside Mammoth in the Park. Of course I can't verify the guys account, but he's had young rams strike out and pass through his property, which is still a pretty good jaunt. And my in-laws had bighorns pass through their property by the DeHart exit outside Big Timber.

 

[geetar]

Those critters sure wander- I for one wouldn't mind seeing a permanent herd in the Bridgers and the Crazies. I talked to a guy from Melville who told a story of a ram that was collared at the Stillwater mine as a yearling, proceeded to live up the Boulder for a few years before moving over to Rock Creek for the majority of his adult life. When the ram died, the collar was recovered outside Mammoth in the Park. Of course I can't verify the guys account, but he's had young rams strike out and pass through his property, which is still a pretty good jaunt. And my in-laws had bighorns pass through their property by the DeHart exit outside Big Timber.

Wild sheep go where wild sheep want to

 

[TrumpkinTheDwarf]

OP, welcome to the forum. I don't post much, but I've been here a while, and a couple things strike me as interesting.

1. This was your first post, asking for help with a hunt. Nothing wrong with that, just a fact of interest!
2. HuntTalkers are pretty merciless about first time posts asking for hunt info normally, and haze the heck out of guys for doing it.
3. That didn't happen here, which begs the question, why not?

Speculative answer from someone who hasn't been in the unit:

This hunt is a wild freaking goose chase, and guys don't mind sharing what they know. Because it just doesn't matter. But on the flip side, that unit usually gets its quota filled, so someone is getting lucky every year!

I could be totally wrong, of course

 

[BuzzH]

Friend of mine hunted this unit in mid 90s and had similar stories. It never sounded appealing to me after hearing about it.
I guess it’s desirable to give an unlimited number of hunters a chance at a sheep vs. a limited number of hunters a good hunting experience.

If 300 went LQ and had a season that stretched into November it could be a pretty neat hunt for a serious sheep hunter. I would probably set a quota of 1 legal ram and closely monitor the age of the rams that are killed. There are some old rams that wander in and out of the park and a patient hunter could probably kill an 8 plus year old ram. If the age of the rams taken were below 6, I would only issue a tag every other year.

The outfitter that used to hunt it was a total tool and basically hunted 2 basins and literally set his camp in sheep beds. I saw 3 legal rams bedded one day exactly where his tents and horses were tied up.

 

[buffybr]

If 300 went LQ and had a season that stretched into November it could be a pretty neat hunt for a serious sheep hunter. I would probably set a quota of 1 legal ram and closely monitor the age of the rams that are killed. There are some old rams that wander in and out of the park and a patient hunter could probably kill an 8 plus year old ram. If the age of the rams taken were below 6, I would only issue a tag every other year.

The outfitter that used to hunt it was a total tool and basically hunted 2 basins and literally set his camp in sheep beds. I saw 3 legal rams bedded one day exactly where his tents and horses were tied up.

No argument here...

 

[geetar]

OP, welcome to the forum. I don't post much, but I've been here a while, and a couple things strike me as interesting.

1. This was your first post, asking for help with a hunt. Nothing wrong with that, just a fact of interest!
2. HuntTalkers are pretty merciless about first time posts asking for hunt info normally, and haze the heck out of guys for doing it.
3. That didn't happen here, which begs the question, why not?

Speculative answer from someone who hasn't been in the unit:

This hunt is a wild freaking goose chase, and guys don't mind sharing what they know. Because it just doesn't matter. But on the flip side, that unit usually gets its quota filled, so someone is getting lucky every year!

I could be totally wrong, of course

The Unlimited sheep hunts are merciless enough without any added hazing.

but seriously the level of respect, camaraderie, and willingness to help each other among the guys on this forum who hunt the unlimiteds is something the average keyboard warrior with an axe to grind on here could learn a lot from.

also 300 hasn’t had a ram taken at all the last couple years.

 

[buffybr]

If 300 went LQ and had a season that stretched into November it could be a pretty neat hunt for a serious sheep hunter. I would probably set a quota of 1 legal ram and closely monitor the age of the rams that are killed. There are some old rams that wander in and out of the park and a patient hunter could probably kill an 8 plus year old ram. If the age of the rams taken were below 6, I would only issue a tag every other year.

The outfitter that used to hunt it was a total tool and basically hunted 2 basins and literally set his camp in sheep beds. I saw 3 legal rams bedded one day exactly where his tents and horses were tied up.

The animals don't recognize the Park boundary. Sheep, goats, elk, buffalo, and now wolves continually wander or migrate across the Park line, and in some areas they cross it daily.

In 2018 65 people applied for Unit 300 sheep tags, so if all of them then bought their tags, plus any hunters that just bought an OTC tag, that resulted in 65 plus hunters that got the rare opportunity to hunt a bighorn ram. I would guess that the majority of those hunters had never killed a ram, and would jump at the opportunity to shoot a legal ram. IF 300 were to go LQ how would FWP limit issuing the single tag only to "a serious sheep hunter"?

The first year that I hunted in Unlimited Unit 302 I killed a full curl ram. He was 6 1/2 years old. The second year that I hunted in 302 I passed on two legal rams. I passed because I had already killed two rams, and these rams were shorter than the full curl ram that I had killed the year before. Both of those rams were stand broadside and close enough to me that I picked up a walnut size rock and threw it underhand and hit one of the rams. Both rams then ran up the mountain where a guided hunter shot one of them. Both rams then ran back down by me, and the ram that had been shot had been gut shot and he was dragging his small intestines like a rope. The rams then went different directions, and I couldn't stand seeing the wounded ram suffer, so I followed it to the next avalanche chute, and gave it a killing shot. I then went back and found the outfitter and his guide and hunter and took them to their dead ram.

The next year I went back and killed the other ram that I had passed on the year before. He is about 7/8 curl and was 9 1/2 years old.

After I had FWP plug this ram I stopped by the Powderhorn in Bozeman to show him to my friends there. While I was there another hunter brought in a 4 1/2 year old ram that he had just killed in one of high quality ram units, and it green scored above the B&C book minimum. Age alone doesn't guarantee a huge ram.

 

[BuzzH]

The animals don't recognize the Park boundary. Sheep, goats, elk, buffalo, and now wolves continually wander or migrate across the Park line, and in some areas they cross it daily.

In 2018 65 people applied for Unit 300 sheep tags, so if all of them then bought their tags, plus any hunters that just bought an OTC tag, that resulted in 65 plus hunters that got the rare opportunity to hunt a bighorn ram. I would guess that the majority of those hunters had never killed a ram, and would jump at the opportunity to shoot a legal ram. IF 300 were to go LQ how would FWP limit issuing the single tag only to "a serious sheep hunter"?

The first year that I hunted in Unlimited Unit 302 I killed a full curl ram. He was 6 1/2 years old. The second year that I hunted in 302 I passed on two legal rams. I passed because I had already killed two rams, and these rams were shorter than the full curl ram that I had killed the year before. Both of those rams were stand broadside and close enough to me that I picked up a walnut size rock and threw it underhand and hit one of the rams. Both rams then ran up the mountain where a guided hunter shot one of them. Both rams then ran back down by me, and the ram that had been shot had been gut shot and he was dragging his small intestines like a rope. The rams then went different directions, and I couldn't stand seeing the wounded ram suffer, so I followed it to the next avalanche chute, and gave it a killing shot. I then went back and found the outfitter and his guide and hunter and took them to their dead ram.

The next year I went back and killed the other ram that I had passed on the year before. He is about 7/8 curl and was 9 1/2 years old.

After I had FWP plug this ram I stopped by the Powderhorn in Bozeman to show him to my friends there. While I was there another hunter brought in a 4 1/2 year old ram that he had just killed in one of high quality ram units, and it green scored above the B&C book minimum. Age alone doesn't guarantee a huge ram.

Where did I say the sheep recognize the park boundary? But, I've spent my share of time on the border of the park in 300 and with the amount of pressure it receives its a shitty hunt. Everyone knows the couple places a vast majority of the sheep are killed, you mentioned one of them. The sad part is, unless you have fog, low clouds or something that limits visibility during the short season in 300...nobody is going to kill a ram. Or if they do, its usually a barely legal 4-5 year old sheep. IF you get weather, they might wander between the various camps on the park line and someone can catch them in the right place.

That's exactly how Monty Schnur and his clients, as well as 70% of the tag holders "hunted" and still do hunt 300...its no secret. You always have a few people looking for a young, barely legal ram on Ramshorn, Fortress, Steamboat etc. country as well.

Like I said, when I spent time there right before the sheep season, I saw 3 legal rams in the very spot Schnur pulled in and set up his camp. The biggest of the 3 was no doubt 9-10 year old ram, broomed right at full curl, probably a 170 type ram. I stayed the whole season and those rams never came back out of the park, the weather was wayyyy too nice and flat too much traffic.

I believe going to LQ would also stop the killing of those young small rams over toward Ramshorn, hardly ever is an old sheep killed there, once in a while.

The reason I say it would be only serious sheep hunters that would apply, is because those rams aren't the transplanted mutants that you described (4.5 years old record book rams). They're a native herd that's been there forever and rarely do rams killed there break 170. Its also not a hunt that you drive down the road and use the mirror of the pickup as a rest to kill a 190+ ram like a friend of Grandfather's did in the glory days of Petty Creek.

Age alone certainly doesn't mean a big score if you're comparing breaks sheep with 300 rams...but I can assure you, your odds of killing a 4-5 year old B&C ram in 300 is about as likely to happen as packing that ram out of that country with your unicorn. You're comparing aardvarks and apples. The ONLY way you're going to kill a 160+ ram in 300 is if its 6-7+ years old, may not even happen then. I realize that its tough to pass a 4.5 year old ram when its standing by the truck and a B&C qualifier in one of the transplanted herds...just unfortunate rams like that never see 8-10 years of age. If they did, the hunters killing juvenile rams would actually have something if they killed those same rams when they're 8-10.

Most of the people applying for sheep in Montana are doing so because its flat assed easy in 90% of the units. Unit 300, even if it went LQ and had a late season, is not going to be an easy hunt. If someone applies thinking its lower rock creek, the breaks, upper rock creek, east fork of the root, anaconda, petty creek type easy sheep hunt...they'll likely not even going to kill a ram. Having a single tag holder or maybe two would give a person the chance to enjoy the hunt, rather than play border patrol and praying you'll be the guy in the right place IF a ram steps across the line.

I think only the serious sheep hunters would be applying in 300 if it went LQ and it would be a great hunt if you didn't have to dodge the idiots that hunt it with unlimited tags.

On the other hand, Montana does make a pretty good amount of revenue off that handful of sheep that live there and it does provide "opportunity" I suppose.

Been there done that, and the sheep that live there are very special, the way they're currently hunted, not so special. My opinion.