Epfd217
Member
Clearly you didnt read what was written then...
What to use for water
- Thread starter tom338
- Start date
Clearly you didnt read what was written then...
Epfd217
Member
Another drinking water operator here, but I will agree with all those who've said filtering is best. Every system is different, but filtering does the bulk of the work. I carry tablets as emergency backup.
Of all the crap we carry into the woods and use for gear, I find it hilarious when people argue about the weight of a water filter. A sawyer mini filter weighs 2 oz. A kit weighs 10 oz and a full 2 liter gravity system weighs 12-16 oz.
A liter of water weighs more than 32oz. You're talking about the weight of a filter to refill a 100 oz bladder with almost 7 lbs of water. Sounds like people are spending a dollar to save a dime.
I personally use a gravity system I created from my Katadyn hiker bag and a sawyer filter. It has a 10L bag which is great for having at camp even in the backcountry. When I decide to upgrade, I will likely end up with a Sawyer again unless the technology gets better. The Sawyer filters have amazing flow rates, no pumping required and are very versatile. Pumping out of a rain puddle or seep is the only shortcoming of gravity filters and I have an MSR Sweetwater if I will be hunting in that territory.
Having water is an emergency survival item to me. Will I have the ability to last 3-5 days in the woods with an injury? With a water supply I will and I won't hasten my death by drinking untreated water simply to save 8oz.
Of all the crap we carry into the woods and use for gear, I find it hilarious when people argue about the weight of a water filter. A sawyer mini filter weighs 2 oz. A kit weighs 10 oz and a full 2 liter gravity system weighs 12-16 oz.
A liter of water weighs more than 32oz. You're talking about the weight of a filter to refill a 100 oz bladder with almost 7 lbs of water. Sounds like people are spending a dollar to save a dime.
I personally use a gravity system I created from my Katadyn hiker bag and a sawyer filter. It has a 10L bag which is great for having at camp even in the backcountry. When I decide to upgrade, I will likely end up with a Sawyer again unless the technology gets better. The Sawyer filters have amazing flow rates, no pumping required and are very versatile. Pumping out of a rain puddle or seep is the only shortcoming of gravity filters and I have an MSR Sweetwater if I will be hunting in that territory.
Having water is an emergency survival item to me. Will I have the ability to last 3-5 days in the woods with an injury? With a water supply I will and I won't hasten my death by drinking untreated water simply to save 8oz.
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D
Deleted member 20812
Guest
I drank a LOT of untreated water when I was younger, starting when I was a kid. I thought I was immune to all water borne diseases. Let me tell you, one bout of giardia will cure a Superman complex in a hurry. It is not fun.
I now carry a Katadyn Hiker Pro.
I now carry a Katadyn Hiker Pro.
I have always used a Katydin Hiker filter (Even when they used to be Pur). Have not gotten ill at all in many years (15+) of backcountry use. Would buy one again. Since we spike camp and hunt from there, our camp has a flowing stream nearby. Filtering into a large container and then filling personal Platypus bags works for us. I'm a wastewater treatment guy and agree with what the water operator guys have stated....
Schaaf
Well-known member
The only knock I've heard on the sawyer mini is it plugs easily. Anyone had this problem?
MinnesotaHunter
Well-known member
This is exactly what I am planning to do. I have a Katadyn Basecamp now, but the price of replacement filters for it is obscene, when a guy could just take the old filter out and hook a Sawyer mini inline on the hose.
Shaaf, I have heard about them plugging, but most filters will. I have also heard they are a breeze to back flush and then you are good to go again.
Epfd217
Member
Minnesota Hunter, I think I saw the original modification for the filter on a Boundary Waters forum.
You take a worn out Hiker filter from your Katadyn and you cut everything off except the very bottom of the filter that screws into the bottom of your basecamp bag. Then you just connect your Sawyer filter inline. If you're looking for added prefiltering, you can add a coffee filter on the inside.
I've had no problems and the Sawyer filter is much faster. I carry the fillsize Sawyer filter rather than a mini. They backflush very easily in the field and at home.
You take a worn out Hiker filter from your Katadyn and you cut everything off except the very bottom of the filter that screws into the bottom of your basecamp bag. Then you just connect your Sawyer filter inline. If you're looking for added prefiltering, you can add a coffee filter on the inside.
I've had no problems and the Sawyer filter is much faster. I carry the fillsize Sawyer filter rather than a mini. They backflush very easily in the field and at home.
Gravity filters are nice for weight, but I tend to use a pump.
If a gravity filter freezes, it can cause the filter inside to break letting the bugs through.
A number of those have to be back flushed with clean water periodically. Not as big a deal for a week or less hunt, but can be a pain.
The pump is heavier, and you have to pump it, but I've had giardia before (using someone else's gear) the weight is worth it to me.
If a gravity filter freezes, it can cause the filter inside to break letting the bugs through.
A number of those have to be back flushed with clean water periodically. Not as big a deal for a week or less hunt, but can be a pain.
The pump is heavier, and you have to pump it, but I've had giardia before (using someone else's gear) the weight is worth it to me.
Where are you going approximately?
A guy that went with me last year used the droplets. They didn't taste weird or anything.
Other than that, I've only ever treated water out of Peck when hunting the breaks.
Mountain water is probably cleaner than your tap. Never worried about it, don't plan to start.
Lots of money to be made convincing guys they can't drink the water 100 yards from the glacier its coming off though..
A guy that went with me last year used the droplets. They didn't taste weird or anything.
Other than that, I've only ever treated water out of Peck when hunting the breaks.
Mountain water is probably cleaner than your tap. Never worried about it, don't plan to start.
Lots of money to be made convincing guys they can't drink the water 100 yards from the glacier its coming off though..
Epfd217
Member
Neither of these are really valid arguments. Different filter types have different media and any filter can be damaged by freezing, that includes pumps. Additionally any pump filter needs to be cleaned as well. Its all a matter of the how.
Sounds like you haven't really looked into what types of filters are out there. Be careful about providing pros and cons with information that is untrue. If you like your pump, thats great. tell us what kind it is and why you love it. I like the pump I use too, but for water at camp, I prefer my gravity. They each have their place.
The OP asked a very open question.. resistance to freezing and back flushing/clogging are issues to be aware of.
My intent was only to bring them to their attention.
You clearly have some strong opinions on water systems, and know more than I do.. which is fine.
But please don't mistake someone bringing up potential general issues for complete ignorance on the subject.
My intent was only to bring them to their attention.
You clearly have some strong opinions on water systems, and know more than I do.. which is fine.
But please don't mistake someone bringing up potential general issues for complete ignorance on the subject.
MinnesotaHunter
Well-known member
I thought the same thing based on your first post. I think the confusion came from the fact that you generalized that all gravity filters are damaged if they freeze, when in fact it has nothing to do with being a gravity. I am actually not aware of any pump or gravity filter that has a filter cartridge that cannot be damaged if it freezes with water in it. If you are out and it is really cold you are probably better off with tablets, a steripen, or boiling. Best case you will get one push through before your filter is jammed with ice.
Epfd217
Member
MH understood what I meant to get across. I just thought your statement was very general and didn't accurately provide info. The OP dis ask a general question, but that doesnt mean he wants general info.
Not all gravity filters are ceramic, not all pumps are filters are fabric and charcoal. In general any filter can be damaged by freezing when you consider the microscopic size of the pores needed to effectively filter. Any amount of ice crystals can damage a filter so its important to plan for keeping it above freezing.
As far as clogging/cleaning issues, my experience is that it is easier to backflush a Sawyer gravity filter than clean a pump filter, but I obviously haven't used all the models available. Personally, I found it was easier to replace a Katadyn Hiker filter than clean it. Cleaning rarely returned the filter back to its useful speed. My MSR sweetwater had similar results, but it did perform better after a cleaning and that is why I still carry it.
I have been reading quite a bit about filtration options since this conversation started and I have to say I'm pretty impressed with some of the advancements. LIke I said earlier, my personal favorite is a frankenstein gravity filter using the Katadyn Base camp gravity bag using a Sawyer filter. It filters water very feast and I like the open top bag rather than a bag with a small opening. I really like the Sawyer setup except for the bags with small water openings.
I checked out MSR and they have an amazing new purifier that uses the same filter tech as Sawyer except its a pump. The design is self-cleaning, using 10% of the clean water to backflush the cartridge. The pump is 2.5L per minute and comes with an awesome prefilter design that will pump out of the tiniest puddles. It is a little heavier, but as I said before, I odn't get my undies in a bunch about carrying a few extra ounces in my filter to avoid diarrhea and besides, a few ounces means nothing once you fill a 100oz bladder with 6lbs of water.
It seems that many of the filter companies are going to hollow fiber filters for many good reasons.
Not all gravity filters are ceramic, not all pumps are filters are fabric and charcoal. In general any filter can be damaged by freezing when you consider the microscopic size of the pores needed to effectively filter. Any amount of ice crystals can damage a filter so its important to plan for keeping it above freezing.
As far as clogging/cleaning issues, my experience is that it is easier to backflush a Sawyer gravity filter than clean a pump filter, but I obviously haven't used all the models available. Personally, I found it was easier to replace a Katadyn Hiker filter than clean it. Cleaning rarely returned the filter back to its useful speed. My MSR sweetwater had similar results, but it did perform better after a cleaning and that is why I still carry it.
I have been reading quite a bit about filtration options since this conversation started and I have to say I'm pretty impressed with some of the advancements. LIke I said earlier, my personal favorite is a frankenstein gravity filter using the Katadyn Base camp gravity bag using a Sawyer filter. It filters water very feast and I like the open top bag rather than a bag with a small opening. I really like the Sawyer setup except for the bags with small water openings.
I checked out MSR and they have an amazing new purifier that uses the same filter tech as Sawyer except its a pump. The design is self-cleaning, using 10% of the clean water to backflush the cartridge. The pump is 2.5L per minute and comes with an awesome prefilter design that will pump out of the tiniest puddles. It is a little heavier, but as I said before, I odn't get my undies in a bunch about carrying a few extra ounces in my filter to avoid diarrhea and besides, a few ounces means nothing once you fill a 100oz bladder with 6lbs of water.
It seems that many of the filter companies are going to hollow fiber filters for many good reasons.
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MThorseshoer
New member
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2015
- Messages
- 20
Love the sawyer mini. I backflush every other trip or so and havent had a problem yet. I also carry purifying tabs just in case. I had a MSR pump that worked great but was slower and took longer than the sawyer.
Epfd217
Member
Well, I finally ran into a perfect storm of the shortcomings of my setup. I know I shared some strong opinions before so I thought I would report back for fairness sake.
I did a scouting trip over the weekend in Western WY. My reports were that water was still good, but recently its been dry. I brought my usualy filter and tablets for backup. Well, one spot had a great creek, but the next 4 days was trying to get water from trickles. It proved difficult and meant I was carrying a gallon or more of water back to camp at times. On top of that, my Sawyer filter decided it didn't want to run like it should.
I backwashed in the field which went well, but the filter only returned to about half capacity. Not great for mid-day refills.
When we got home I did the backflush procedure again. Flow got a little better. I looked up the advice from Sawyer and we did a full backflush with hot water and vinegar soak. Now this filter is running like a champ. It took about 2hrs total with about 10 mins of actual work. Its cheaper and easier than buying a new filter, thats for sure.
Knowing what I know, we will have the pump for sure come elk season, so we can pump when we need water now and I will still carry the bag/sawyer combo for camp. It so worth having a large amount of fresh water at the end of the day or first thing in the am.
Now, if only that new MSR wasn't $350. I could have the best of both worlds.
I did a scouting trip over the weekend in Western WY. My reports were that water was still good, but recently its been dry. I brought my usualy filter and tablets for backup. Well, one spot had a great creek, but the next 4 days was trying to get water from trickles. It proved difficult and meant I was carrying a gallon or more of water back to camp at times. On top of that, my Sawyer filter decided it didn't want to run like it should.
I backwashed in the field which went well, but the filter only returned to about half capacity. Not great for mid-day refills.
When we got home I did the backflush procedure again. Flow got a little better. I looked up the advice from Sawyer and we did a full backflush with hot water and vinegar soak. Now this filter is running like a champ. It took about 2hrs total with about 10 mins of actual work. Its cheaper and easier than buying a new filter, thats for sure.
Knowing what I know, we will have the pump for sure come elk season, so we can pump when we need water now and I will still carry the bag/sawyer combo for camp. It so worth having a large amount of fresh water at the end of the day or first thing in the am.
Now, if only that new MSR wasn't $350. I could have the best of both worlds.
LuketheDog
Well-known member
It's laughable that there are three guys on here whose JOBS are making clean water, and there are still people who discount the science of it because 'it's worked so far'! I got giardia once drinking unfiltered water, that's a quick way to lose some weight if you're one of those people saying a filter weighs too much to carry...
I carry a Katadyn Hiker, I'd bet its at least 18 years old, the filter cartridge has been replaced a number of times. It works great. My buddy brings a Platypus gravity filter for camp, also works great, between the two we are covered.
I carry a Katadyn Hiker, I'd bet its at least 18 years old, the filter cartridge has been replaced a number of times. It works great. My buddy brings a Platypus gravity filter for camp, also works great, between the two we are covered.
I've broken two Katadin Pro Hikers. If you camp much, the 200 gallon capacity runs out quick. $50 a pop for replacement cartridges gets spendy.
I've switched to a Sawyer which is lighter and has a million gallon capacity guarantee.
I've switched to a Sawyer which is lighter and has a million gallon capacity guarantee.
Gellar
Well-known member
I spent a summer in the Boundary Waters, drank out of the lakes everyday with no filter. It never caught up to me until we were loading gear into the tow boats to leave Prairie Portage on the American side. The only cover I had was behind the large Welcome to Canada sign. And we had to stop at about every island on the way back to the ramp as well.
Bambistew
Well-known member
I've 2 minis and one full size. They do tend to plug pretty easy, and none of them backflush to original flow rates. One of mine is about 1/2 and has been flushed and flushed... the other is at about 90% maybe but hasn't been used nearly as much. The full size one is done for, a week of filtering decanted glacial water was more than it could handle. The two minis have seen a bit of silt, but one has only been in "clear" water and it still suffers from clogging. The Kat Hikers work well, but at painfully slow.
From my experience, the Platypus filter is WAY better at back flushing and the flow rate is better. The two bag system is slick. All you have to do is run the clean water back through the filter to flush it.
I rarely have a problem finding water, clear water can be hard to find at times though.
I've had the same MSR pump for 20+ years. Never had major problems with it.
Original ceramic filter is just a bit smaller from cleaning. It has froze once or twice and that was easily fixed with putting inside the down parka or pumping heated snowmelt.
New ones are more efficient & lighter.
I'm not worried about a few ounces after the ex got Girardia bad one time. Before that I never worried about water except from mud puddle or filthy stock tank.I even filtered water thru a t-shirt one time in a jam. Working in water treatment & pools for Parks was an eye opener on water quality.
Original ceramic filter is just a bit smaller from cleaning. It has froze once or twice and that was easily fixed with putting inside the down parka or pumping heated snowmelt.
New ones are more efficient & lighter.
I'm not worried about a few ounces after the ex got Girardia bad one time. Before that I never worried about water except from mud puddle or filthy stock tank.I even filtered water thru a t-shirt one time in a jam. Working in water treatment & pools for Parks was an eye opener on water quality.
