Stop Blaming Conservation Orgs

[SAJ-99]

First amendment is a right to free speech not government speech. Public or internal, a person who's a member (or not) has a right to say whatever they desire on their own platform w/in the spectrum of the 1st.

I really don't know where to start with the way in which this could be viewed as wrong.

I'm not saying he can't say it. I'm say he shouldn't. I don't follow, listen to, or GAS about either Rinella brother.

 

[Elky Welky]

For the record, I would like it to be acknowledged that when push comes to shove and everything falls apart, no one has done more to change the status quo with internet complaints, snarky sarcasm, memes and gifs than I. You are welcome for my service….

Hate to break it to you @Gerald Martin, and much respect, but I think the troll crown goes to Greenhorn, or whatever he calls himself these days.

 

[brockel]

i bet if hunter numbers double proportionately across the nation tomorrow, meaning each state's number doubled, odds of things like lion hunting bans passing would decrease substantially.

this is why i'm not anti R3.

i've never heard matt address that side of the coin.

but admittedly i've completely tuned him out for a good while now.

I bet you’d be shocked about that. There’s TONS of hunters who are against predator trapping/hunting

 

[TOGIE]

I bet you’d be shocked about that. There’s TONS of hunters who are against predator trapping/hunting

maybe.

"tons" seems hyperbolic. i'm sure it's minority faction of hunters who anti predator hunting/trapping.

either way, there is a big difference between being a hunter who is not a big fan of predator hunting/trapping and being hunter who is anti predator hunting/trapping.

and most of us know that's not what these fights are actually about anyway, which is why numbers matter.

 

[The Hedgehog]

Hate to break it to you @Gerald Martin, and much respect, but I think the troll crown goes to Greenhorn, or whatever he calls himself these days.

This is a true honor. A crown is better than a sticker, badge or tiara. Thank you.

 

[Sytes]

This is a true honor. A crown is better than a sticker, badge or tiara. Thank you.

Found this fitting your wit/satire. Meant with all due respect for such a crown. Matt might even be jealous.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Hate to break it to you @Gerald Martin, and much respect, but I think the troll crown goes to Greenhorn, or whatever he calls himself these days.

Haters always be minimizing me trying to get me down. I’m gonna keep my head up. I know what I’ve done.

 

[Pucky Freak]

i bet if hunter numbers double proportionately across the nation tomorrow, meaning each state's number doubled, odds of things like lion hunting bans passing would decrease substantially.

this is why i'm not anti R3.

What if hunter numbers are a function of access, and satisfaction of the experience? We’re already maxed out. It could be that the only ways to increase hunter numbers are to boost access and game populations. We can recruit 1 million new hunters tomorrow and in 1 year a million have dropped out because they lost access, or their experience was degraded by crowding to the point that it wasn’t worth it anymore.

R3 initiatives overwhelmingly have no plan of where new hunters are supposed to actually hunt. How-to content and gear are abundant and accessible. Quality access requires a lot of $$ or a lot of determination to find uncrowded hunting space.

 

[Forkyfinder]

What if hunter numbers are a function of access, and satisfaction of the experience? We’re already maxed out. It could be that the only ways to increase hunter numbers are to boost access and game populations. We can recruit 1 million new hunters tomorrow and in 1 year a million have dropped out because they lost access, or their experience was degraded by crowding to the point that it wasn’t worth it anymore.

R3 initiatives overwhelmingly have no plan of where new hunters are supposed to actually hunt. How-to content and gear are abundant and accessible. Quality access requires a lot of $$ or a lot of determination to find uncrowded hunting space.

Who are these orgs recruiting? People who dont hunt - or people who do and don't show up in terms of advocacy? it seems far more of the latter.

Capatilistic advertising, marketing, and influencing is way more of a needle mover for "adding" hunters than these orgs are.

 

[TOGIE]

What if hunter numbers are a function of access, and satisfaction of the experience? We’re already maxed out. It could be that the only ways to increase hunter numbers are to boost access and game populations. We can recruit 1 million new hunters tomorrow and in 1 year a million have dropped out because they lost access, or their experience was degraded by crowding to the point that it wasn’t worth it anymore.

R3 initiatives overwhelmingly have no plan of where new hunters are supposed to actually hunt. How-to content and gear are abundant and accessible. Quality access requires a lot of $$ or a lot of determination to find uncrowded hunting space.

if there were no NRs hunting in colorado we could probably double our hunter numbers here and retain status quo on nearly all things related to access, crowding, draw odds, etc

is it a case where 10% of the hunters are causing 90% of the problems? by hunting 3 different states every year? i dunno

i care less about crowding and bad draw odds than i do being able to have advocacy that perpetuates a political environment favorable to hunting. more animals and more access is irrelevant when the powers that be start stripping hunting opportunity away with the stroke of a pen.

i imagine there is more than enough opportunity to go around, especially for brand new hunters, if folks would be happy just hunting at home.

*some dip is gonna misconstrue this as an anti NR rant, i just know it. it's not.

 

[Elky Welky]

i imagine there is more than enough opportunity to go around, especially for brand new hunters, if folks would be happy just hunting at home.

That's a wholly separate story, but I strongly share this sentiment. Hunter numbers dwindling nationwide yet increasing in western states is a lose/lose. The wildlife/habitat loses because of the pressure, locals aren't happy, and without people advocating in their home states, we are all losing the long game of keeping this tradition alive nationwide. Probably worth starting a separate thread on this one @TOGIE.

 

[MNElkNut]

Quality hunting access is not that hard to obtain if you put a little bit of work in it. I have examples from WY, MT, SD, ND and MN where someone has put a little bit of effort in and been rewarded with great hunting. Not to mention the quality hunting that is available on public land. I think it is an easy excuse for someone to say I am quitting hunting because I lost my place to hunt or not to start at all. Yes, granted, some places are crowded and overcrowded. I get that. But not everywhere. Most recently, we asked permission on 12 places to turkey hunt. 11 said yes. The 95 year old woman who said no said she doesnt let anyone hunt.

With regards to R3, I wonder if the folks in CO would like a few more hunters to be advocates about now? Do we want kids to be sitting on the couch playing video games or out in nature doing something whether it be hunting or angling or whatever?

Elky, I have enjoyed this thread. I agree with you in that I am sick of the blaming. Especially when it comes from someone who likes to talk big but actually does very little. I have ran across more than a few people that are all hat and no cattle!

 

[Pucky Freak]

i care less about crowding and bad draw odds than i do being able to have advocacy that perpetuates a political environment favorable to hunting.

I would gladly make the same exchange, but crowding and poor draw odds appear to be in lockstep with a political environment unfavorable to hunting.

more animals and more access is irrelevant when the powers that be start stripping hunting opportunity away with the stroke of a pen.

True. Build it and they will come, though. More animals and more access creates more hunters and more advocacy for hunting. The best chance at stopping future pen strokes might be increasing access and herds. The time and treasure dedicated to R3 is pissing in the wind.

i imagine there is more than enough opportunity to go around, especially for brand new hunters, if folks would be happy just hunting at home.

If only they would. IA can currently accommodate more hunters for rabbits/squirrel, furbearers, and waterfowl. Hunting for deer, turkey, dove, and upland game is saturated. I imagine it would be difficult to recruit hunters to unsaturated hunting only. A big reason the West gets so much attention is that the hunting is worse where the people are coming from - hard to blame them.

I think it is an easy excuse for someone to say I am quitting hunting because I lost my place to hunt or not to start at all.

It is, but I've heard that same story from 100 people. All 3 R's are dampened by the masses not wanting to hump it and find a good place to go.

 

[KingOfTagSoup]

if there were no NRs hunting in colorado we could probably double our hunter numbers here and retain status quo on nearly all things related to access, crowding, draw odds, etc

is it a case where 10% of the hunters are causing 90% of the problems? by hunting 3 different states every year? i dunno

i care less about crowding and bad draw odds than i do being able to have advocacy that perpetuates a political environment favorable to hunting. more animals and more access is irrelevant when the powers that be start stripping hunting opportunity away with the stroke of a pen.

i imagine there is more than enough opportunity to go around, especially for brand new hunters, if folks would be happy just hunting at home.

*some dip is gonna misconstrue this as an anti NR rant, i just know it. it's not.

Which is why more animals on the mountain is the best way forward. I would love to hunt elk for example at home, and at one time they were here. As soon as we can repopulate them in NY I'll be happy to stay right here. And maybe one day we can make it happen. But in the meantime, can't hunt a species at home that doesn't exist