Colorado Lion and Bobcat Ballot Initiative Update

[MaybelNellie]

@Oak - Appreciate your response and guidance. Fully agree with the non-combative nature of any communication to appointed officials and never would do so to staff, however from someone who was guilty of standing on the sidelines and only contributing funds on the wolf vote, I have fully heard the call to get involved.

As such, I feel the need to at a minimum get ahead of the real issue even if we can't steer the commission in any way. And secondly, if we can respectfully provoke a response (e.g. if the Mutualistic principle is indeed going to drive CPW and fully define this), then we have a rallying cry for our roundtables, communication to our reps, etc). Because in my limited research, you can not have Mutual and the N. American Model at the same time.

Just want to know how the avg sportsman can be heard. Or, someone tell me to shut up and leave it to the roundtables, Dan Gates (other lobbyists included), etc. and just send money, write to out state/natl reps and promote every likeminded person to vote. Good either way, just want a recommendation.

 

[COEngineer]

Just want to know how the avg sportsman can be heard.

Go to their FB page and comment, share, like. They have been spending money making quality videos that are targeted to have the most effect:
https://www.facebook.com/savethehuntcolorado

 

[elkduds]

@Oak - Appreciate your response and guidance. Fully agree with the non-combative nature of any communication to appointed officials and never would do so to staff, however from someone who was guilty of standing on the sidelines and only contributing funds on the wolf vote, I have fully heard the call to get involved.

As such, I feel the need to at a minimum get ahead of the real issue even if we can't steer the commission in any way. And secondly, if we can respectfully provoke a response (e.g. if the Mutualistic principle is indeed going to drive CPW and fully define this), then we have a rallying cry for our roundtables, communication to our reps, etc). Because in my limited research, you can not have Mutual and the N. American Model at the same time.

Just want to know how the avg sportsman can be heard. Or, someone tell me to shut up and leave it to the roundtables, Dan Gates (other lobbyists included), etc. and just send money, write to out state/natl reps and promote every likeminded person to vote. Good either way, just want a recommendation.

There is a distinct difference between @Oak 's style of interacting w CPW Board and staff, and mine. I endeavor to learn to be more considered and less confrontive, more solution-focused and less middle-fingered. Oak's way is better.

If you read about CPW's Sportpersons' Roundtable in the last 4 years on this forum, I was on the Roundtable and reported on it in this Forum. I believe Oak served on the first Roundtable when the group was formed. He also is now working (thanklessly) on the committee to improve the big game draw system. Kudos! I still want to be him when (if) I grow up.

 

[COEngineer]

Here is what I found in a little research. In California they legally kill around 100 lions each year for depredation concerns. Then they have an additional 1-2 lions killed by vehicles each week. Putting these 2 causes of human mortality at 178 lions a year. I found an article stating the data from CA bounty period. From 1907-1963 over 12,000 lion were killed and turned in for a bounty(I doubt any that were killed turned down the bounty). So from 1907-1963 they killed an average of 220 lions a year in CA. So today we are killing around 180 and back in the bounty period they were killing 220. Adjust for the population and urbanization in California and I am certain a person could argue we are killing more today than eve before...

Oregon is a bit different. They banned the hound hunting and the lion population has went way up and as a result the number of lions killed has also increased. In 1987 is appears that there were around 130 lions killed by hunters and like 5 killed by other means. Then fast forward to 2016 and the data shows that hunters killed 270 and non hunting killed 170. So in this case protecting the lions from hound hunting has moved the kill from 135ish to 440ish... I am certain that today those numbers are up as the lion population has continued to increase..

Both make a great argument for allowing the CPW to handle the management of lions... However the new director and the cancer that is infecting the CPW will someday make it to where even CPW can not be trusted.

WYelker, would you please share your sources for these numbers. They are in the ballpark of what I can find, but if I can cite legitimate sources, that would be helpful.

 

[SD_Prairie_Goat]

Most of these individuals are single white women educated but have never had a man or a boyfriend, atheist, and don’t believe in having fun.

Really don't see what this information adds to the discussion besides bringing in misogyny and bigotry.

 

[Pagosa]

Really don't see what this information adds to the discussion besides bringing in misogyny and bigotry.

You’re probably correct, just my observation interacting with some segments. I will keep my comments to myself, and I did donate to CRWM, even though I don’t live there. Preston

 

[WYelker]

WYelker, would you please share your sources for these numbers. They are in the ballpark of what I can find, but if I can cite legitimate sources, that would be helpful.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/mountain-lion-highway-california-17770742.php for road kill numbers...

https://www.vcstar.com/story/news/s...ree-strikes-since-none-struck-out/4358738002/

for the 100 killed for depredation (permits). What I cant find is a number to the lions killed by Wildlife Officers (injured, sick, etc.) I did did a story where they are finding more and more starving lions

This for the 12000 lions killed from 1906-1963 During the bounty.

Passing Shadows

In the quest to save a true Southwest icon, San Diego Zoo Wildlife Alliance has teamed up with the California Mountain Lion Project.

stories.sandiegozoo.org

This one is a good resource for Oregon Data. The data shows a trend. The more protected the lions became them ore lions are getting killed. This classifies both hunter kills and nonhunting kills...

https://www.oregonlive.com/news/erry-2018/09/11563ef7f84586/cougars-killed-in-oregon-by-th.html

 

[Mtn Dawg]

I hope the "average" Colorado hunter sees the writing on the wall. Its the average hunter that allows these ballots measures to get past. Thinking this doesn't affect me, I don't hunt mountain lions.

I deal with this all the time in Montana, I go to work and talk about things Fwp or the legislature is trying to do and no one has a clue.
I hope this doesn't get past.

We are getting the message down here in CO. Dan Gates with Sportsman for Responsible Wildlife Mgmt believes CO is now the proverbial tip of the spear. If these initiatives succeed there will be a cascading effect throughout the conservation/hunting space. This affects all sportsman in every state and we need to defeat it.

 

[MaybelNellie]

https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/mountain-lion-highway-california-17770742.php for road kill numbers...

https://www.vcstar.com/story/news/s...ree-strikes-since-none-struck-out/4358738002/

for the 100 killed for depredation (permits). What I cant find is a number to the lions killed by Wildlife Officers (injured, sick, etc.) I did did a story where they are finding more and more starving lions

This for the 12000 lions killed from 1906-1963 During the bounty.

Passing Shadows

In the quest to save a true Southwest icon, San Diego Zoo Wildlife Alliance has teamed up with the California Mountain Lion Project.

stories.sandiegozoo.org

This one is a good resource for Oregon Data. The data shows a trend. The more protected the lions became them ore lions are getting killed. This classifies both hunter kills and nonhunting kills...

https://www.oregonlive.com/news/erry-2018/09/11563ef7f84586/cougars-killed-in-oregon-by-th.html

Oregon's overall non-hunter to hunter killed numbers percentage-wise look similar to CPW's figures as presented by CPW's carnivore biologist last week at the Commission Meeting. COEngineer: you may have already seen/attended this meeting, but the trend in Colorado would follow to some degree of that seen in Calif if we loose this vote. The thing that I would think throws comparing to Calif to Colo and

 

[Moserkr]

Can with time on their hands find the data for CA that shows attacks on humans after the ban here vs before? May be hard to find. But from what I remember growing up in socal (90's) there were more and more frequent attacks.

 

[Buffs35]

We are getting the message down here in CO. Dan Gates with Sportsman for Responsible Wildlife Mgmt believes CO is now the proverbial tip of the spear. If these initiatives succeed there will be a cascading effect throughout the conservation/hunting space. This affects all sportsman in every state and we need to defeat it.

Same playbook they used for energy production and wolves. A western state where left-leaning urbanites control the entire state based on population density.

And even when you convince the electorate to vote one way (see Proposition 112), Polis and his minions like former rep. KC Becker will make sure the deed is done. They just prefer the voters do it so they don't have to get their hands dirty.

 

[MaybelNellie]

No doubt some are getting the message, but still run into maybe 1 in 4 hunters even at shows that don’t agree with us that this will not end with cats. It’s going to take a solid and very persuasive political campaign, and disprove their bad science. Think also we need to take the high road always that way if we loose we put our best foot forward for the next battle. The wolf SSS comments need to end. Helps nothing.

 

[FI460]

Can with time on their hands find the data for CA that shows attacks on humans after the ban here vs before? May be hard to find. But from what I remember growing up in socal (90's) there were more and more frequent attacks.

Here ya go:



The quick googling claims that dog bites are responsible for 38k injuries per year in California.

 

[Pagosa]

Just listened to the spokesman for the Coloradans for Responsible Wildlife Management on a rokside podcast at work. And it’s well worth the time to listen to. A couple things that caught my attention was this not just being a Colorado issue but an issue that could and will likely effect hunting in your own state, since Colorado has become a battleground state for liberal left-wing animal rights activists. These individuals don’t plan to stop at a ban on bobcat and lion hunting, but will gain momentum if it passes. The podcast went into great detail about about the missteps of wolf reintroduction and the lack of scientific based methods for the reintroduction, so you can skip into the podcast to about the 45 minute mark when they begin talking about the bobcat/lion ballot initiatives 91 and 101.

As Oak mentioned these ballot initiatives are a long ways from passing and the CRWM has received generous donations the past few months and this can be defeated. It sounds like the steps that Coloradans for Responsible Wildlife Management has the tools and ability to stop this and potentially get the populace aware.
As hunters we should all donate $10, $50, or whatever you can afford. Or talk to any Colorado residents that are family or friends to have them made aware.

 

[BuzzH]

Just listened to the spokesman for the Coloradans for Responsible Wildlife Management on a rokside podcast at work. And it’s well worth the time to listen to. A couple things that caught my attention was this not just being a Colorado issue but an issue that could and will likely effect hunting in your own state, since Colorado has become a battleground state for liberal left-wing animal rights activists. These individuals don’t plan to stop at a ban on bobcat and lion hunting, but will gain momentum if it passes. The podcast went into great detail about about the missteps of wolf reintroduction and the lack of scientific based methods for the reintroduction, so you can skip into the podcast to about the 45 minute mark when they begin talking about the bobcat/lion ballot initiatives 91 and 101.

As Oak mentioned these ballot initiatives are a long ways from passing and the CRWM has received generous donations the past few months and this can be defeated. It sounds like the steps that Coloradans for Responsible Wildlife Management has the tools and ability to stop this and potentially get the populace aware.
As hunters we should all donate $10, $50, or whatever you can afford. Or talk to any Colorado residents that are family or friends to have them made aware.

So, there are no conservative right-wing animal rights activists? I happen to know some conservatives that supported trapping bans in Montana and Oregon and also voted in favor of banning hound hunting in Oregon for lions and bears.

I think the rhetoric does the cause no good.

 

[Oak]

this not just being a Colorado issue but an issue that could and will likely effect hunting in your own state, since Colorado has become a battleground state
As hunters we should all donate $10, $50, or whatever you can afford.

I think the rhetoric does the cause no good.

I agree with all of this.

 

[HONEYBADGER]

So, there are no conservative right-wing animal rights activists? I happen to know some conservatives that supported trapping bans in Montana and Oregon and also voted in favor of banning hound hunting in Oregon for lions and bears.

I think the rhetoric does the cause no good.

I too know these people. I believe their names are Peter Pan and the Fairy Godmother.

 

[WYelker]

Just sharing with everyone.... This would be great argument against any bans or limits on Lion hunting...

Mountain Lions Kill 15 Dogs In 30 Days in Colorado Town

Mountain lions cut a bloody swath through the dog population around a town in rural Boulder County, Colorado, killing as many as 15 dogs in 30 days.

cowboystatedaily.com

 

[Hnthrdr]

Just sharing with everyone.... This would be great argument against any bans or limits on Lion hunting...

Mountain Lions Kill 15 Dogs In 30 Days in Colorado Town

Mountain lions cut a bloody swath through the dog population around a town in rural Boulder County, Colorado, killing as many as 15 dogs in 30 days.

cowboystatedaily.com

Best part about that whole thing was when the lion was killed folks were still mad at the dude… from what I remember it was a healthy tom that figured out he could wait for owners to let fiddo out at night or in the morning and he had a fish in the barrel, smart kitty for sure

 

[marksjeep]

Que up some Hall and Oates

https://www.postindependent.com/new...s-deemed-a-threat-to-human-health-and-safety/