4 year olds with guns

[jryoung]

In the early 1990's we traveled to look at Seely Lake Lodge that was for sale. We were hesitant to drive down the driveway, but figured since we just drove all the way from Seattle we should give it a look.

We stayed just a half hour then asked the proprietor where was the best place to stay and he akwardly replied "Seely Lake Lodge", we said no thanks, we're headed to Missoula.

 

[twodot]

Heck Buzz, I never figured you to be thin skinned enough to let something like that bother you.
I have experienced that very kind of sentiment from one side of the state to the other. In fact I consider it to be the dark secret of MT. I have however deemed MT as the last best place to be in spite of a large population of idiots. There are also some real good folks, they just don't write on your truck.
You are welcome at my place anytime. My neighbors all think I'm crazy because I like to visit with other hunters who come into the area, and I offer them help, food and coffee when they come by. The local mentality is act like you don;t see em. Maybe they won't come back.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

BuzzH stated: "I'm with Randy11, if a kid under 12 wants to hunt, let them fill their "mentors" tag..."

***Now in your post #78 you really put up a real bunch of BS! Take all the rest of what you have been spouting and throw it all out the window because the quote above is exactly the reason you have problems with the program and completely negates everything else you've been stating! You are against the kids going cow hunting because it will hurt the resource because you say their parents will do all the killing, which has always been illegal to begin with. You are against them killing an animal on their own tag because it will take an animal away from the resource that someone else won't have a chance at! That is exactly what you are stating when you say go ahead and take the youngster hunting as long as the animal he takes is on an adult mentor's tag! Give me one GOOD reason why this system is working so well in many states and won't work in Montana. You talk like you're the only adult who doesn't violate the law in one way or another, LOL! Texas and a number of other states have had a lot lower age requirement than 12 for a long time, along with others that have passed what we're discussing in the last five years or so and none have any appreciable problems and that is a FACT! All your posts are speculation and conjecture based on what you think will happen and not the fact that this exact program is working in many states where it has already been passed. This program will not change a thing amongst the people that already violate and will help those that are responsible adults and have kids that are ready well before the age of 12.

 

[Sytes]

Do you guys that are for this bill also think that there shouldn't be an age on voting? Drinking? Driving? Gambling? Buying smokes? Purchasing a firearm?

Not trying to stir the pot, just curious if they're different for you guys of not.

I believe there is a line to draw. A parent whom cares not for responsible parenting cares less whether a law is present or not... Same arguement for gun laws and criminals.

For those parents whom pride themselves on their parental responsibility - raising their children as this taxidermist has chosen... It is not my position to deem him unfit to raise his child as he sees best as much as it is not his position to dictate how I raise my child.

A line drawn... a few examples from another perspective:

Gov't declared a child must receive vaccinations?
Any physical touch in a form of punishishment deemed criminal?
Children may not pray on their own while at school?
Children may not read "Catcher in the Rye"?

Some of these may be down right close as hell to being law currently.

Not intended as an egg throwing contest - simply offering a response for support of parental rights deciding how to raise their child.

 

[cur dog]

I believe there is a line to draw. A parent whom cares not for responsible parenting cares less whether a law is present or not... Same arguement for gun laws and criminals.

For those parents whom pride themselves on their parental responsibility - raising their children as this taxidermist has chosen... It is not my position to deem him unfit to raise his child as he sees best as much as it is not his position to dictate how I raise my child.

A line drawn... a few examples from another perspective:

Gov't declared a child must receive vaccinations?
Any physical touch in a form of punishishment deemed criminal?
Children may not pray on their own while at school?
Children may not read "Catcher in the Rye"?

Some of these may be down right close as hell to being law currently.



Not intended as an egg throwing contest - simply offering a response for support of parental rights deciding how to raise their child.

I couldn't agree with you more. Lately, everything has become an egg throwing contest around here. When somebody has several thousand, Hunt Talk posts, and a federal job, they must know whats right for all of us though.

 

[tjones]

Topgun I don't think you can compare kids hunting deer and hogs in Texas usually out of an elevated box blind to elk hunting in Montana. Just sayin.

 

[BuzzH]

twodot,

Actually, since I was born in Montana, and lived there for 30 years before moving to Wyoming in 2000...I thought it was pretty funny. Just typical of the area...along the lines of the Seeley local I ran into elk hunting with a .17 rem because its "flat shootin'..."

 

[spook12]

When all newborns,born in MT. leave the Hospital,they should have a pocket full of tags,a crossbow and a quiver full of bolts with lighted nocks.:hump:

 

[Topgun 30-06]

Topgun I don't think you can compare kids hunting deer and hogs in Texas usually out of an elevated box blind to elk hunting in Montana. Just sayin.

I just bring up Texas as one state amongst a number that have had a lot lower age limit than 12 for quite some time with no problem. Now there are a lot of states over the last five years or so that have gone with this same mentor program that Montana is now trying to approve and they have not experienced any problems either. Obviously the parent has to be smarter than the kid for it to work and BuzzH seems to feel that Montana is comprised only of a bunch of retards!

 

[tjones]

Wouldn't you say that style of Texas hunting is more conducive to younger hunters?

 

[What Map]

Ben, You and I are usually on the same page, but when it comes to my kids I'll decide when I want them as hunting partners. I would like to decide when they will compete with you for our limited wildlife resources. I don't need government help on this one. My children and I will make the ethical decisions that need to be made to be hunter (huntress) conservationists.

My middle daughter after her first and only kill. She has chosen not to be a huntress but she married a hunter long after this picture was taken.

 

[noharleyyet]

Wouldn't you say that style of Texas hunting is more conducive to younger hunters?

Pretty tough posting a wallow huh?

 

[cur dog]

What Map, excellent photo, I love it. I think, it tends to strike a special nerve when children are involved in a debate.

 

[BuzzH]

I couldn't agree with you more. Lately, everything has become an egg throwing contest around here. When somebody has several thousand, Hunt Talk posts, and a federal job, they must know whats right for all of us though.

But its A-ok for you to accuse Wyoming residents of not helping to fund AccesYes...I think you have some catching up to do.

Just sayin'...

And I'm fine with kids under 12 hunting on their parents tags...just not the State issuing tags to kids under 12...a majority of which will be filled by their older siblings, Dad, Mom, Uncle...and the rest of the family wreath.

 

[tjones]

Pretty tough posting a wallow huh?

Most Montana elk are not shot over a wallow, that being archery season throughout most of the state and all, but I maybe wrong.

 

[noharleyyet]

Most Montana elk are not shot over a wallow, that being archery season throughout most of the state and all, but I maybe wrong.

Excuse me for generalizing.

 

[BuzzH]

NHY, you make a good point though...under a very controlled situation, and using their parents tags, I've no problem with it.

If you want to do some tough elk hunting someday...hunt Montana. Pack a lunch, bring a light, a broken in pair of boots, and be prepared to spend all 5 weeks of the season getting it done...its no joke. I'm just glad the season was 5 weeks or I wouldnt have killed elk most years.

Wyoming is an elk hunters piece of cake in comparison...I've hunted both....alot.

Neither state is going to be kind to kids under 12.

I think real young kids will actually burn out easier and be less likley to go again when they spend day-after-day hiking their butts off and not seeing anything, failing to get shots, etc. etc. etc. All the things that make success difficult for youngsters.

I could be wrong.

 

[dustinf]

Most Montana elk are not shot over a wallow, that being archery season throughout most of the state and all, but I maybe wrong.

Well then, just legalize crossbows and you're good...

 

[Gerald Martin]

Put me firmly in the support column for allowing kids to hunt at an earlier age. I grew up in Virginia, a state where there are no age limits and was hunting deer on my own by age 11. I killed my first deer when I was twelve on an after school hunt by myself. I probably put in twenty-five or thirty days of hunting with my dad and by myself before I killed that doe.
I was hunting doves with Dad's 12 gauge Remington 870 when I was small enough that I had to shoot with the gun tucked under my arm because I it was too long for me.
I was squirrel hunting at age six and on my own with the .22 when I was nine. Was I safe? The only close calls I ever had with guns and judgement came when I was 15 or 16, way past the "responsible" age limits.
Dad very firmly taught me the seriousness of what happened when the gun went off. There was no play shooting with sticks or toy guns ever in our household. When I fantasized about shooting things as a boy it was always deer or critters that died in my mind. I remember vividly the sense of finality when I saw what a .22 does to squirrel brains or what a 12 gauge with birdshot does to a watermelon at ten yards.
Would I let my kids hunt as unsupervised as I was allowed to? Absolutely not. I have no problems with supervision laws and think it is good that youth hunters be supervised by an adult at all times.
My oldest son will be eight this coming fall. He's been accompaning me on deer and bear hunts since he's been about three. I know that with his gun handling skills he would be completely capable of killing a deer.
I think that the age children should be allowed to hunt should be determined by their parents and by passing hunter safety courses and proficiency tests. There are 8-10 year olds who are more capable than some 12-14 year olds who are allowed to hunt as soon as they reach the minimum age.

As far as the poaching by parents goes. My guess is the ones who will abuse that system would do it anyway with a different excuse.
Do away with allowing youth hunters to kill cows altogether would be a good way to avoid this abuse. Let them shoot whitetail does and only allow cows to be killed with a drawn permit.

Side note about the picture. This is my son posing with the Montana deer I shot because he was with me. He was right there with me and it could have been his deer if not for the age restrictions.

 

[Gerald Martin]

As far as allowing kids to hunt on their parents tags.... I'd gladly let my son fill my deer or elk tag.