Who’s returning a tag?

[Bullshot]

OK… since CO’s secondary draw as we know is mostly a young boy or girl’s game…. time to turn focus to reissues! Who’s returning a tag? (I am). Keep your eyes peeled for my muzzy bull license, it could be yours!

Though I won’t be elk hunting, I am very excited about my upcoming WY antelope hunt. It should be a “civilized” and “easy” adventure, or so I think as I console myself with the memory of my last muzzy elk that fell into a deep root hole when she died and had to be extracted in pieces on the side of a mountain. Who the hell needs THAT kind of work anyway!

 

[Sheltowee]

Turned in a 4th season rifle bull tag that I drew as a second choice because I somehow managed to draw a 4th season rifle muley buck tag on the other side of the state, also as a second choice. I'll turn out with the Great Orange Army to try to chase bulls during the general season and might see if I can't pick up a leftover cow tag.

 

[WildWill]

I turned in my 2nd choice any whitetail tag. Had every intention of hunting it but didn't expect to break a 7 year cold streak in NM. Of course the NM deer tag I drew opens the same day as the CO deer tag. Pretty easy decision on which one to focus on. The CO tag actually runs a bit longer and I could've probably hunted at least the last 3-4 days but decided I already had enough on my plate and it would be better going to someone else.

 

[MITCHMO]

Just sent in my paperwork for turning in my muzzle loader bull tag. Very sad after waiting 6 years but I found a transporter in Ak that had a cancellation for a caribou hunt so I jumped on it. I won’t have a bull tag in my pocket this year. First time in 7 years, but I’ll be chasing cows in Montana so that should be a blast.

 

[rogerthat]

You guys just gave me an idea.

How to address point creep.
1) returning a tag you still lose all your points.

Seems like a no brainer. Lots of applications getting submitted for tags as an option. Meanwhile the willing and ready can’t draw chit

 

[Sagebrush1]

You guys just gave me an idea.

How to address point creep.
1) returning a tag you still lose all your points.

Seems like a no brainer. Lots of applications getting submitted for tags as an option. Meanwhile the willing and ready can’t draw chit

If only…

 

[COHunter67]

OK… since CO’s secondary draw as we know is mostly a young boy or girl’s game…. time to turn focus to reissues! Who’s returning a tag? (I am). Keep your eyes peeled for my muzzy bull license, it could be yours!

Though I won’t be elk hunting, I am very excited about my upcoming WY antelope hunt. It should be a “civilized” and “easy” adventure, or so I think as I console myself with the memory of my last muzzy elk that fell into a deep root hole when she died and had to be extracted in pieces on the side of a mountain. Who the hell needs THAT kind of work anyway!

My wife & I both drew our 2nd draw elk B tags again bringing our elk tags to four for the year as usual. We aren't young boys & girls anymore

 

[WIbiggame]

You guys just gave me an idea.

How to address point creep.
1) returning a tag you still lose all your points.

Seems like a no brainer. Lots of applications getting submitted for tags as an option. Meanwhile the willing and ready can’t draw chit

And:
1) Front 100% of costs at time of purchase.
2) You draw you hunt the tag period
3) Only way to get $ back is to your family if you should die.
4) Only way to get points is apply for tag and if you don't draw you get a point. No points only options.
5) If states are so dependent on the $ from points up the base non refundable license portion
6) Any leftover or returned tags are random draw or points however you would like but you lose your points held if you draw
7) If you decide you have a better tag and return one you get no refund

 

[ImBillT]

And:
1) Front 100% of costs at time of purchase.
2) You draw you hunt the tag period
3) Only way to get $ back is to your family if you should die.
4) Only way to get points is apply for tag and if you don't draw you get a point. No points only options.
5) If states are so dependent on the $ from points up the base non refundable license portion
6) Any leftover or returned tags are random draw or points however you would like but you lose your points held if you draw
7) If you decide you have a better tag and return one you get no refund

I drew an elk tag with zero points that could have been drawn as a second choice, and even had some leftovers go to the secondary draw. Then I drew a cow moose tag in a different state that has conflicting dates. Any reason that I need to be punished by not getting a refund? I won’t get a point. Anyone else could have drawn that same tag. If CO would let me apply for a refund earlier than they do, that tag could have gone into the secondary draw.

In CO if you return the tag, you can get a refund OR point restoration, BUT you cannot gain the point you would have gained, therefore, you go backward one year in terms of points. That doesn’t exactly contribute to point creep.

The AZ system is a point creep nightmare. Get your refund, AND gain a point, AND it works on group apps where not every applicant returns the tag. I have a customer that uses his kids and non-hunting wife to average points with him and then turns their tags in on point guard. He’ll get two seasons per person in the end.

 

[WIbiggame]

I drew an elk tag with zero points that could have been drawn as a second choice, and even had some leftovers go to the secondary draw. Then I drew a cow moose tag in a different state that has conflicting dates. Any reason that I need to be punished by not getting a refund? I won’t get a point. Anyone else could have drawn that same tag. If CO would let me apply for a refund earlier than they do, that tag could have gone into the secondary draw.

In CO if you return the tag, you can get a refund OR point restoration, BUT you cannot gain the point you would have gained, therefore, you go backward one year in terms of points. That doesn’t exactly contribute to point creep.

The AZ system is a point creep nightmare. Get your refund, AND gain a point, AND it works on group apps where not every applicant returns the tag. I have a customer that uses his kids and non-hunting wife to average points with him and then turns their tags in on point guard. He’ll get two seasons per person in the end.

Imo yes you should be "punished" you wanted that tag but got a much better one. If you wouldn't have drawn the moose tag you could've gotten your cow elk in the leftover draw. But, bc CO gives them all to parents I mean youth first you probably wouldn't have. It's a risk you took in putting the tag as a 2nd option. Like the OP pointed out there's plenty of people willing and able to hunt whatever tag we can.

You should ALWAYS lose your points if you draw a tag IMO. and shouldn't have the option for the refund*. If I was in charge death would be the only way to get your $ back. Injury or illness wouldn't be a reason. If the state wanted more $ you could pay a % off the tag price as a sort of "trip insurance" that is non refundable but would give you your tag $ back should an injury or illness arise.

*I could maybe get behind 2nd choice you could return for a 50% refund but no matter what points are used. Even 2nd or 3rd options. This would limit the people putting 2nd and 3rd options and open up more tags for people who didn't draw to draw a leftover tag. In the leftover you lose your points too. So that would burn through a ton of people's points quickly!


Edit: you for example on the "insurance" part. Your tag was $500 you pay an addition 20% say (could be whatever state needed to make up for no points being bought) so $100 to the state. If you get injured or illness than you could get your $500 back. But you still lose all your points.

 

[Sheltowee]

And:
1) Front 100% of costs at time of purchase.
2) You draw you hunt the tag period
3) Only way to get $ back is to your family if you should die.
4) Only way to get points is apply for tag and if you don't draw you get a point. No points only options.
5) If states are so dependent on the $ from points up the base non refundable license portion
6) Any leftover or returned tags are random draw or points however you would like but you lose your points held if you draw
7) If you decide you have a better tag and return one you get no refund

Wouldn’t the end result of this effectively be less hunting opportunity? If a hunter surrenders a tag, another hunter gets a crack at it. Forcing a hunter to eat a tag that he can’t hunt— for whatever reason— would take that tag out of circulation.

 

[WIbiggame]

Wouldn’t the end result of this effectively be less hunting opportunity? If a hunter surrenders a tag, another hunter gets a crack at it. Forcing a hunter to eat a tag that he can’t hunt— for whatever reason— would take that tag out of circulation.

You are correct but it would help with point creep by getting the points out of the pool the following year. I think it would limit guys buying tags as "backups" just because they know they can get a refund and or their points back.

I think to keep "opportunity" availabe tags that are not desirable ie some cow tags that are historic 2nd or 3rd choices with leftovers could be purchased in person 1 week before the season they are good for OTC with no lost points. This would allow people the chance to hunt cows and not lose points.

 

[Bullshot]

Lots of good ideas. Until then, this is how it is. Is there any feeling that changing this is on CPW’s top 10 or 20 “fixes”? For them, it’s not broken! $$$$

 

[QuazyQuinton]

Bit of a dilemma for us. My son was in for a returned muzzleloader elk tag that I thought he had a decent chance to draw. With that in mind, I also put him in for the muzzleloader buck tag in the same unit group. Now, of course, he drew the buck tag but not the elk tag. 18 hours of driving to Colorado to hunt elk in September was going to be worth it, but with only a deer tag, I'm really not sure. I wasn't supposed to have to make hard decisions like this.

QQ

 

[ImBillT]

Imo yes you should be "punished" you wanted that tag but got a much better one. If you wouldn't have drawn the moose tag you could've gotten your cow elk in the leftover draw. But, bc CO gives them all to parents I mean youth first you probably wouldn't have. It's a risk you took in putting the tag as a 2nd option. Like the OP pointed out there's plenty of people willing and able to hunt whatever tag we can.

You should ALWAYS lose your points if you draw a tag IMO. and shouldn't have the option for the refund*. If I was in charge death would be the only way to get your $ back. Injury or illness wouldn't be a reason. If the state wanted more $ you could pay a % off the tag price as a sort of "trip insurance" that is non refundable but would give you your tag $ back should an injury or illness arise.

*I could maybe get behind 2nd choice you could return for a 50% refund but no matter what points are used. Even 2nd or 3rd options. This would limit the people putting 2nd and 3rd options and open up more tags for people who didn't draw to draw a leftover tag. In the leftover you lose your points too. So that would burn through a ton of people's points quickly!


Edit: you for example on the "insurance" part. Your tag was $500 you pay an addition 20% say (could be whatever state needed to make up for no points being bought) so $100 to the state. If you get injured or illness than you could get your $500 back. But you still lose all your points.

I didn’t make the tag a second choice. I made it a first choice. I had zero points, and drew it as a first choice. Other people drew it as a second choice. By returning it, I get a refund, and someone else gets to hunt. I do not gain a point, and CO does not allow you to keep points(I had zero anyway) if you want a refund. If CO did not offer the refund, I would not have returned it, and would probably have hunted 1-2 days. Do you really think that offering the refund is promoting point creep? You only get a refund if you give up your points. It was a zero point tag that went to people who put it second choice. I put it first choice. Explain how punishing me instead of offering a refund would benefit someone else. Go ahead. Offering the refund actually benefitted someone else because now they get hunt the tag that I would have kept if a refund was not an option. Not only that, I didn’t take a tag that other people wanted. It went to second choice.

 

[WIbiggame]

Explain how punishing me instead of offering a refund would benefit someone else. Go ahead.

In your exact situation it would be a wash. However, you need to set a blanket rule no returned tags period.

Your example it's had 2nd choice apps drawing it and leftovers. So you could've applied for it as a leftover if you didn't get your moose tag. If still left overs a week before season it becomes a 1st come 1st serve OTC tag.

We need to "punish" people for buying tags as "backups" if they don't draw a tag. Ie Idaho is the prime example. And to do that all tags would need to be under the same rule. To hand pick which tags are affected and not would way to hard on systems that can't even do a standard draw right.

 

[Slm864]

I don’t like Colorado’s structure on returning points and allowing points to be accumulated while hunting an A list tag. With that being said I love the leftover list and having the opportunity to get those tags free of points so I guess I’m in the minority. I hope they never change their point system. I’m more than happy to only hunt certain units once every 10 years and never hunt the premier units. I’ll just keep watching the leftover list and hunting OTC.

So in that regard, I hope this thread gets to 1000 pages with people saying the are returning tags that end up on the leftover lists!

 

[jlmatthew]

Funny how the best idea's come from folks "visiting" from other states where you just go to Walmart and buy a tag good statewide.

If I want to deer hunt I have to apply by April for a season that starts in November that runs 7 days and hope like hell I or someone in the family doesn't get sick or whatever reason that could interfere with me going. And this year I didnt even draw my 0 point area tag.

 

[WIbiggame]

Funny how the best idea's come from folks "visiting" from other states where you just go to Walmart and buy a tag good statewide.

If I want to deer hunt I have to apply by April for a season that starts in November that runs 7 days and hope like hell I or someone in the family doesn't get sick or whatever reason that could interfere with me going. And this year I didnt even draw my 0 point area tag.

As one of those "visiting" people who can buy my deer license OTC. I will say what is said to us "visitors" in a lot of these discussions... "You can move here to get your resident license perks"

Heck you don't even have to move here (WI) $79.95 will get you a NR OTC rifle tag with 1 buck license and 3 doe tags another $79.95 will get you an archery license that has 1 buck and 3 doe.

 

[jlmatthew]

Heck you don't even have to move here (WI) $79.95 will get you a NR OTC rifle tag with 1 buck license and 3 doe tags another $79.95 will get you an archery license that has 1 buck and 3 doe.

You're actually tempting me!

Because of this clown state I live in, I have been going out of state (WY & KS) to hunt, and enjoy it so much more than hunting here. Sad that I view hunting in Colorado as a cheap bonus hunt now IF I can get a tag. Colorado has the potential to be a great state to hunt in, but we would need to trade our Commission for something like Wyoming's for that to happen