What are your thoughts on this?

[mtmiller]

Boy would I like to knock the pins down on that quote (MOB)...but I digress, let's pile on Moosie.

 

[1_pointer]

You don't have time to be worrying about quoting me, you need to be taking pictures of my buck for this fall and I'll keep changing your kid's diapers...

 

[shoots-straight]

My point is if there is no fence, and the outfitter says you can get it, Is it a canned hunt ?

As long as the leopard is wild, free range, not druged, found the bait on his own, yes! Just because it's a sure thing in the mind of an outfitter wouldn't make it a canned hunt. This doesn't seem to fit the bill though.

I'm sorry, but allowing canned hunting, like I've always said gives hunters a black eye and is terrible for our sport.

 

[Moosie]

S.S. , You want me to answer your questions but up above you stated "dildo" () or ditto on the canned hunt comment but now say it's not a canned hunt. So what do you want me to answer when you yourself don't know what you think a canned hunt is ?

Pile on... PHAGS

 

[shoots-straight]

So what do you want me to answer when you yourself don't know what you think a canned hunt is ?

Moosie, you've been talking with Tom to much. I bet your the only one that understands him. I said

As long as the leopard is wild, free range, not druged, found the bait on his own, yes! Just because it's a sure thing in the mind of an outfitter wouldn't make it a canned hunt. This doesn't seem to fit the bill though.[/QUOTE]

I agreed with WH on his value of a leopard hunt that seems to us to be to good to be true. I would half to ask, if interested in the hunt, if indeed it is high fence. Believe me moose I know what a canned hunt is, and indeed would not give too hoots in hell if someone harvested an animal on one.,
Go to the slaughterhouse and kill all you want if bloodlust is what your into.

I answered your questions, now answer mine. Do you believe it's ok,or ethical to hunt on, or run game farms? Do you support game farms? Have you ever harvested an animal of a high fence operation? Would you?

 

[Tom]

I guess if its a really big canyon (i.e. big hole, in mtmiller's terms), it might be harder to get the deer than the cat. Maybe it has no cover to sneak up to the deer for a good shot, it might be harder. The fact that the deer has been there all summer makes that a more predictable hunt than the cat hunt. Its more of a right here and now predictability. How long do they feed on a carcas like that? I'm thinking any human scent around the carcas would probably tell the cat to leave for good.

I think if someone didn't get their quick, that cat was/is long gone, but I don't know much about those type of hunts.

 

[Bambistew]

What if an outfitter in ID had a huge black bear coming in every night to bait, the bear likely grew up in Yellowstone park. Would it be any diffrent?

I've never heard canned leopard hunts in RSA, i'm sure there are, but this doesnt' sound like one. Youd have to build a cage to keep a leopard in it.

 

[Tom]

Does the bear eat out of a can? haha I like that Idaho bear management has all types of bear hunting, not just spot and stalk, not just with dogs, not just baiting. At least they did, last time I read about it.

 

[Moosie]

Go to the slaughterhouse and kill all you want if bloodlust is what your into.

Whats the difference ? Is it that someone has the money to go to a canned hunt opperation and shoot something ? Is it because you think ther person will lie and say he hiked in 20 miles and packed out the animal whole ? All explinations after a comment about someone going to a canned hunt is how they are "FAT" , "LAZY", and "RICH SLOB HUNTER".

Why would you be OK with someone killing something at a slaughterhouse and not in a fence. Using Tom's logic a Fence could be surrounding the slaughterhouse, would that make it not OK then ?

We have had a bear bait site that I could guarentee a bear on. Is that a CANNED hunt ? If I was an Outfitter I would offer to pay someone 1/2 their money back if they didn't get it. I would be banking on that they could shoot. If they couldn't shoot and messed it up, why should I give all of it back ?

I could answer your questions if I knew how you think and what you were looking for ....

 

[shoots-straight]

I answered your questions, now answer mine. Do you believe it's ok,or ethical to hunt on, or run game farms? Do you support game farms? Have you ever harvested an animal of a high fence operation? Would you?

You partially answered some of my questions. You know good and well what I'm asking!

Why would you be OK with someone killing something at a slaughterhouse and not in a fence. Using Tom's logic a Fence could be surrounding the slaughterhouse, would that make it not OK then ?

It doesn't matter to me if someone kills livestock in a slaughterhouse, or inside a fence. That's the point there the same thing. Just killing animals.

Now the problems with game farms, canned hunts, high fence, or whatever your poison, is huge, besides the habitat issue, desease issue, bad perceptions by the public of this being they way hunters hunt ect.. There is the pollution of records by game farm animals, this taints Boone and Crocket, and Pope and Young records, you can bank on the fact that farm animals have made the book. The ability of game farmers to steal wildlife and use records of dead or moved game farm animals is real and has been done.
I could go on and on why hunting canned hunts matter, but you either get it or you don't, and with most sportsman they get it....

The effort, although varies to degrees, to legally pursue and harvest a wild animal with free will should give you a rush that most sportsman are addicted to. Killing animals that aren't free and raised for the only purpose in life to be killed in a pen and mounted by some unwitting shooter is both sad, and ungratifying. The reasons most of us hunt are lost on those that use the services of game farmers. Therefore killing a leopard that was raised for only the purpose of making money for a rancher, and filling a space in a zoo room doesn't mean squat to me. I look down at such dealings with distaste and disgust.

 

[Moosie]

Whats wrong with killing somethnig to kill it ? I saw a fly last week and just killed it. I killed a 'yote too jsut for fun.

Are you worried about B&C and P&Y ? You're worried that someone might put a critter in there from the Game farm ? If you're so worried about game farms and animals you should be worried about B&C and P&Y. They promote Huge animals which promotes Poaching. Why not go after the B&C club ? Is it becasue all your buds at the bar are ok with B&C but not Game ranches ?

So if a guy in a wheel chair hunts a game ranch, and gets to kill a elk that he otherwise couldn't kill, and gets a rush out of working hard for it, is that part bad ?

This topic is about a Free Ranging Cat in Africa. Sounds like you wouldn't hunt it becasue the outfitter made it sound Easy. Is it that ? Or is it the 16k price tag that pisses you off becasue Others that have money would pay that ? You are argueing about fences and zoo's. This cat is over a Bait pile in Africa. No fence holds in a cat. I would think "Sporstman" could keep to the topic, and not be mad jsut cuz someone has money. You wouldn't pay 10 cents for the hunt ? Why not, It's free ranging, your "edit" said a hunt like that is Priceless.......

 

[Tom]

I don't think a leopard on a game farm would have any trouble going over the fence any time they wanted. Your argument is a bunch of crap shootstraight, a fence is not what you think it is. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, no matter how uninformed, missleading, and illogical it may be. I hear that cats can climb trees, even fences. If a tree were next to the fence, I hear they can jump too.

For example, Pope and Young purposely kept some high fence animals in its book. They used to approve them, case by case, but they stopped doing that, although they kept those that were approved in the book prior to when they stopped going to the effort of approving them. If you think that or some unethical act of lieing to get one in taints the book, that's your problem, they do the best they can at sifting out the liars about every aspect of a hunt. There are many laws that may or may not be violated that taint the books, if we go by that logic, which I don't.

 

[shoots-straight]

Whats wrong with killing somethnig to kill it ? I saw a fly last week and just killed it. I killed a 'yote too jsut for fun.

I thought this thread was about hunting leopards, not killing things for a kick.
Theres a fad going around right now with our youth called thrill kill, maybe you part of the fad!

So if a guy in a wheel chair hunts a game ranch, and gets to kill a elk that he otherwise couldn't kill, and gets a rush out of working hard for it, is that part bad ?

There's plenty of closed areas that are only handicap accessable to hunt and limited entry area's for those in wheelchairs. I for one have a good friend that uses the resources that are given to him in his condition.

This topic is about a Free Ranging Cat in Africa. Sounds like you wouldn't hunt it becasue the outfitter made it sound Easy. Is it that ?

Thats the whole point, we don't think that this hunt is free range, if it was it would be advertised a such. As a predator I also an opportunist being easy doesn't make it less of an achievment, Using a closed field turning loose livestock running the animal around for awhile shooting it and calling it hunting does. If you don't know the difference I fee sorry for you.

I don't think a leopard on a game farm would have any trouble going over the fence any time they wanted

Tom, being a trapped animal killer yourself you should know thats BS. There is lions, leopards, cheetahs, ect. killed all the time on game farms in Africa that are inclosed.

For example, Pope and Young purposely kept some high fence animals in its book. They used to approve them, case by case, but they stopped doing that, although they kept those that were approved in the book prior to when they stopped going to the effort of approving them.

Now Tom, I also have good friends that score for both clubs, and that's the biggest line of BS you've ever thrown out here, and believe me you slung some chit quite high. Name one animal, just one that you know of. Any animal that is questionable they review and will even investigate.

There are many laws that may or may not be violated that taint the books, if we go by that logic, which I don't.

By Tom
__________________

Nuff said

 

[Moosie]

There is the pollution of records by game farm animals, this taints Boone and Crocket, and Pope and Young records, you can bank on the fact that farm animals have made the book.

Name one animal, just one that you know of. Any animal that is questionable they review and will even investigate.

You're more confusing then TOM ?!?!? Yes they casue problems or No ?@?@

 

[Bambistew]

There is lions, leopards, cheetahs, ect. killed all the time on game farms in Africa that are inclosed.

Really? Lions yes (not for much longer), but leopards and cheetas? How much do you want to bet on it? Where did you get your information? Speculation?

 

[Tom]

There's three animals that a guy named Chuck Adams has in Pope and Young that were put in back when they would approve high fence hunts on a case by case basis and they are still in there. Read his biography, if you continue to not believe me. Chuck was quoted as saying, "they were wild as hell" and deserve to be in P&Y in the biography.

So what if cats have been shot in a high fence in Africa, my point was they could probably go in and out at will and the fence doesn't matter much to them. I guess this thread is not even about that though.

Does anyone have any idea how long a leopard or any cat would stay on a carcas like this? I've found where mountain lions kill a deer and put it in some brush and cover it to come back to later, so I know they'll come back, at least some cats. There's been pictures posted here too, like that, a cat coming back.

 

[shoots-straight]

You're more confusing then TOM ?!?!? Yes they casue problems or No ?@?@

Clear that up a bit, he he, Yes they cause problems, and if Tom knows of any that are in the book he should let em know they will investigate and kick em out. The fact that Tom said they approved of them is the part that's BS.

 

[Tom]

You are one ignorant and arrogant son of a bitch, keep it up.

 

[shoots-straight]

[You are one ignorant and arrogant son of a bitch, keep it up./QUOTE]

Wow, Tom did I strike a nerve on your dumb ass. Heh moron it was you who made the fuggin stupid statement in the first place. Go kill somthing on a game farm, post the pic's here, tell a @#)(# and bull story how big and dangerous this inbreed animal was and you'll feel better about your fat assed self.

 

[shoots-straight]

Really? Lions yes (not for much longer), but leopards and cheetas? How much do you want to bet on it? Where did you get your information? Speculation?

Here's a paragraph from the link I posted on page one of this thread.

The illegal trapping of wild leopards and cheetah escalated and animal smuggling networks started doing a roaring trade by supplying innocent captive bred or illegally trapped wild predators to be shot as hunting trophies. The trade in wild cats’ skins increased drastically.

Within the past week I watched a show on the Sportsman's Channel. This fella was hunting a water hole with a bow, and in walks two Cheetah's. The narrator says that they have been captive breed and it's Ok for him to harvest one if he wants to, although he wouldn't be able to bring it back to the states because of there endangered species status. He goes ahead and shoots one, posess with the trophy and thats what he gets. What are we betting anyway...