Dinkshooter
Well-known member
and tasty.
Surely we can do better.
- Thread starter shoots-straight
- Start date
Art Vandeley
Well-known member
The difference is deer and elk are fun to hunt, and they are sensitive to pressure. Buffalo are just there, and the amount of pressure shown in the video shouldn't affect their overall health in anyway. It doesn't matter to me if they are in the park or outside the park
Dinkshooter
Well-known member
False
Art Vandeley
Well-known member
Dangit what's the correct answer?
katqanna
Well-known member
There are some bison that have been found dead in Gardiner. We dont know the cause, if it might be from hazing, though a nurse that was visiting the area said she saw no obvious signs of bleeding or cuts that might show damage from hazing (it could be hazing related). A few of them might have simply drowned in the river, and after watching this video, that certainly is a possibility from the hazing, with already exhausted animals forced to swim, but that wouldnt account for the older ones found a on a trail (this needs to be investigated and verified). Then there is a concern of mine, that there could be a possible exposure from Hoppes sheep that he irresponsibly endangered to the wolves, on a five acre leased parcel right next to the YNP Bighorn Sheep and bison - that of the spread of Malignant Catarrhal Fever, which is lethal to deer and bison. There could be other factors, but only testing will determine what the cause is, but FWP has not yet tested in the two days since they have been notified and this is in Montana, their jurisdiction. MCF can infect up to 3.1 miles and this was well within that territory, with a 7 day incubation, again within the time frame when he put his sheep in that parcel (April 23rd they were first spotted) and MCF will kill an infected deer or bison within 2-3 days on average.
Not saying these deaths are due to any specific cause, but we would like the FWP Region 3 office to test, before the remaining bison disappear due to predation, the river or degradation to the point they cant get decent samples for testing (an avoidable effect of procrastination). Two days now and they have only confirmed the location of the two remaining bison, but not tested (said they didnt have a boat to check). The ones on the trail are in Gallatin National Forest nearby and will have to be investigated by the forest service.
Not saying these deaths are due to any specific cause, but we would like the FWP Region 3 office to test, before the remaining bison disappear due to predation, the river or degradation to the point they cant get decent samples for testing (an avoidable effect of procrastination). Two days now and they have only confirmed the location of the two remaining bison, but not tested (said they didnt have a boat to check). The ones on the trail are in Gallatin National Forest nearby and will have to be investigated by the forest service.
Summitthunting
Well-known member
MT Muley read this thread and then tell me it dosent look like fun.
http://onyourownadventures.com/hunttalk/showthread.php?t=253677&highlight=Randy+buffalo
http://onyourownadventures.com/hunttalk/showthread.php?t=253677&highlight=Randy+buffalo
Art Vandeley
Well-known member
Read it
Rimrock
New member
http://helenair.com/news/local/state-and-regional/state-looking-into-two-bison-deaths-of-two-bison/article_915c2f1a-bf7f-11e2-82c6-001a4bcf887a.html
Except my understanding is there are at least five dead bison. And, at least some of them were bleeding from their anus, a symptom of malignant catarrhal fever. They're being tested, but that is known to be fatal to bison, and is carried by domestic sheep, which as you know just recently showed up in the Gardiner area. And, it's been shown to transmit up to three miles, and these bison were in that range.
Plus there's also a bighorn die-off going on in that area.
Except my understanding is there are at least five dead bison. And, at least some of them were bleeding from their anus, a symptom of malignant catarrhal fever. They're being tested, but that is known to be fatal to bison, and is carried by domestic sheep, which as you know just recently showed up in the Gardiner area. And, it's been shown to transmit up to three miles, and these bison were in that range.
Plus there's also a bighorn die-off going on in that area.
katqanna
Well-known member
They said they will try to test. Hell, I even asked if it was just a boat they needed to get to them, Bonnie knows some people in the area with boats that could take them out.
If this had been a number of cattle that showed up dead, the DOL would be all over this the first morning this was reported. When are wild bison in Montana going to be respected, valued and not treated as a "toxic" subject here?
I would love to see them on a broader Montana landscape with such numbers that a huntable population would be an asset to Montana. How many hunters would like the opportunity that Randy had? How much money could this help bring in, not just to FWP in licenses, but to Montana in general from the tourism dollars? And how much is that worth to Montana, in respect, that we treated these wild bison as valuable wildlife, not as "diseased vermin" or the despised, unwanted stepchild of the livestock industry, removing the black eye we currently have in the world's view (especially in the DOL spring hazing time)?
Wild bison are not what is "toxic"; small minded, shortsighted perspectives are.
If this had been a number of cattle that showed up dead, the DOL would be all over this the first morning this was reported. When are wild bison in Montana going to be respected, valued and not treated as a "toxic" subject here?
I would love to see them on a broader Montana landscape with such numbers that a huntable population would be an asset to Montana. How many hunters would like the opportunity that Randy had? How much money could this help bring in, not just to FWP in licenses, but to Montana in general from the tourism dollars? And how much is that worth to Montana, in respect, that we treated these wild bison as valuable wildlife, not as "diseased vermin" or the despised, unwanted stepchild of the livestock industry, removing the black eye we currently have in the world's view (especially in the DOL spring hazing time)?
Wild bison are not what is "toxic"; small minded, shortsighted perspectives are.
shoots-straight
Well-known member
Missoulian. http://missoulian.com/news/state-an...cle_2d68b872-bfb9-11e2-97ef-001a4bcf887a.html
This should go viral.
This should go viral.
katqanna
Well-known member
This article just came up in Livingston, about the DOL employees behavior concerning the hazing.
http://www.livingstonenterprise.com/content/appalled-lack-civility-department-livestock-employees-0
http://www.livingstonenterprise.com/content/appalled-lack-civility-department-livestock-employees-0
katqanna
Well-known member
FWP finally got to one of the dead bison to test it, testing will take weeks. One was stated as not being accessible. This link has updates and a picture of one of the remaining bison. She doesnt look like a long dead bison to me.
http://www.gallatinwildlifeassociation.org/Gardiner%20Dead%20Bison.htm
http://www.gallatinwildlifeassociation.org/Gardiner%20Dead%20Bison.htm
I think I speak for others that are not natives to the area...: what's the deal? The bison leave the "Park" and get onto private land owned by ranchers who don't like them and then they get pushed back into the Park? Is that the basic deal here? I can see the Rancher's side a little, if it was my private land and I was trying to raise cattle on it, I wouln't want it over-run with bison either. But if Farmer Bill doesn't like it he should chase them back with his own horses or build a better fence.(which probably isn't realistic) Wild animals are wild animals and may go wherever they want. In the Midwest the DNR issues depredation tags for farmers to kill extra deer that eat their crops. Pretty fine line there in my opinion. Let the bison go wherever they want and wreck the ranchers land? Let him try to keep them out himself? Get the Govt. to help keep them off his land with OUR tax money? Maybe I'm way off since I don't know the situation. BUT, chasing them with helicopters and nearly running them to the point of death by exhaustion is rediculous in my opinion. Personally, I'd say if the wildlife experts feel there are too many, shoot em and eat em! don't just try to run them somewhere else with machines. But, what do I know, I live in Iowa,...
ismith
Well-known member
Disgusting way to treat animals.
katqanna
Well-known member
This is not about a few private ranchers that dont want bison. There are numerous private property owners that want bison, including some ranches. The Dept. of Livestock has control because of the livestock dominated legislature passing 81-2-120 and giving them the control over wild bison. 5% of Montanans are ag owners, but they control about 50% of the legislature. Ag/livestock only hire 7% of the population. This is special interest government. This session there were 10 anti-bison bills.
I have no problem with private property rights. How about the private property rights of the Dome Mountain Ranch in Livingston? They want the bison. And when one bull bison migrated out of the YNP recently, the DOL came onto their ranch, hazed the bison onto the adjacent Dome Mountain Wildlife Management Area (wild bison are wildlife) and shot it, leaving it to rot (wanton waste). During this hazing, the DOL has gone onto private property that wants the bison and has hazed them off. Homeland Security even demanded of one couple that they take down their No Trespassing sign, saying it was a threat to federal agents, and not to put it back up. So where are the private property rights of these people?
Bison do very little damage down there. And there is no disease threat from brucellosis. There is not one documented case of bison to cattle brucellosis transmission. Not one! And DOL knows that the cases they have had, are from the elk genotype. But bison are treated like diseased vermin, even though the science does not back that up.
This is because of grass. The livestock industry does not want bison on public lands, which wildlife have the priority to, over livestock grazing. They get public land leases for nearly free, compared to private lease rates here in Montana (private $23.60 an acre and $1.35 for BLM). They are welfare ranchers dictating what goes on with our wildlife.
They have stopped any relocation of the migrating bison in Montana, to other locations and force the YNP to manage for minimum viability, rather than the carrying capacity. This is a limited pure genetic stock and we should be able to have these bison relocated onto other public lands that can sustain them, such as the Charles M. Russell. Over 68% of Montana's stated, a year ago, that they want wild bison on Montana public lands. So how is it that the self-serving element that comprises 5% of the population have the rest of the Montanans by the bison balls?
I have no problem with private property rights. How about the private property rights of the Dome Mountain Ranch in Livingston? They want the bison. And when one bull bison migrated out of the YNP recently, the DOL came onto their ranch, hazed the bison onto the adjacent Dome Mountain Wildlife Management Area (wild bison are wildlife) and shot it, leaving it to rot (wanton waste). During this hazing, the DOL has gone onto private property that wants the bison and has hazed them off. Homeland Security even demanded of one couple that they take down their No Trespassing sign, saying it was a threat to federal agents, and not to put it back up. So where are the private property rights of these people?
Bison do very little damage down there. And there is no disease threat from brucellosis. There is not one documented case of bison to cattle brucellosis transmission. Not one! And DOL knows that the cases they have had, are from the elk genotype. But bison are treated like diseased vermin, even though the science does not back that up.
This is because of grass. The livestock industry does not want bison on public lands, which wildlife have the priority to, over livestock grazing. They get public land leases for nearly free, compared to private lease rates here in Montana (private $23.60 an acre and $1.35 for BLM). They are welfare ranchers dictating what goes on with our wildlife.
They have stopped any relocation of the migrating bison in Montana, to other locations and force the YNP to manage for minimum viability, rather than the carrying capacity. This is a limited pure genetic stock and we should be able to have these bison relocated onto other public lands that can sustain them, such as the Charles M. Russell. Over 68% of Montana's stated, a year ago, that they want wild bison on Montana public lands. So how is it that the self-serving element that comprises 5% of the population have the rest of the Montanans by the bison balls?
Interesting info there kat ! Like I said, I don't know anything about it and I bet other readers not familiar with the way things work out there do either. We love to visit the western states, and would love to see them and the wildlife stay wild, but unfortunately it is likely a state issue that us visitors can likely do little about. If there is a way for the non-res to help, please inform us. Thanks for the education.
thecrittergitter
Well-known member
I say we all pitch in and rent a chopper...............and go chase cattle for a few days
The DOL once again proves their stupidity.
People need to understand its crap like this that plays a role in why we don't have much opportunity to hunt bison.
I'm game for a good new fashioned cattle drive if anyone wants to pitch inlol
Pretty sad to see that little guy, probably gonna be griz bait. One of these times it would be cool to just have those bastards turn and charge the piss out of those guys on horses.
Wondering the legalities of being in the park doing that crap. They definately were in the park, I could put gps coordinates on that location....
The DOL once again proves their stupidity.
People need to understand its crap like this that plays a role in why we don't have much opportunity to hunt bison.
I'm game for a good new fashioned cattle drive if anyone wants to pitch in
lolPretty sad to see that little guy, probably gonna be griz bait. One of these times it would be cool to just have those bastards turn and charge the piss out of those guys on horses.
Wondering the legalities of being in the park doing that crap. They definately were in the park, I could put gps coordinates on that location....
CabinFever
Member
I just noticed in the video description they list YNP and FWP among other agencies alongside the DOL as being cruel to the bison. While I disagree with the hazing, the group that made the video probably a little over the top with the goals of their campaign.
Big Shooter
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2008
- Messages
- 482
Ismith, you are correct, disgusting way to treat animals. There should be a better way, but possibly isn't. Katqanna......you might want to check your facts before yo start flapping as far as the cheap grazing and the brucellosis. Here is a project for you.......start calling some major feeders in Nebraska or Iowa and ask them what their thoughts are on bison. Here's a fact: The majority of the cattle feeders will not buy calves that come from counties......or surrounding counties that have contact with buffalo.
I know that most of you would love to have them and hunt them, but it is a huge black eye for the states cattle industry.
Dinkshooter....you can take your one comment about my fences and shove it up your a$&!
I know that most of you would love to have them and hunt them, but it is a huge black eye for the states cattle industry.
Dinkshooter....you can take your one comment about my fences and shove it up your a$&!
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