No! I'm less than 40 years away from drawing an elk tag there!
Selling Public LandHR 621 and 622: Do We All Agree that Jason Chaffetz is a Coward?
- Thread starter JoseCuervo
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No! I'm less than 40 years away from drawing an elk tag there!
Yes, that is true. Only the current Alt-Fact crew could deny that all these bills are introduced by folks with an "R" next to their name.
That said, there are people with an "R" who are against this stupidity. I cannot stress how bad it hurts our cause when people make this strictly and R or D, lumping our supporters from the "R" side into the mix with those who are anti-public land.
Yes, I know some are going to say State Transfer is a plank in the R platform, and it is. But that does not mean every R agrees with it. Yes, those dissenters are unfortunately in the minority of their caucus. They represent the most important allies we have and not recognizing them for being on our side is a sure way to push them to the other side.
If this is going to be defeated, not just now, but for decades to come, we better get off the R v. D issue on this and divide it along the lines of who is voting with us or for us. To make it R v. D leaves the pro-public land R's with no place to stand when it comes to this issue.
Flame away.
dannyb278
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What if our NEW REP is Rampant pro states rights? My new Distrtict Rep Jason Lewis wrote a book called " Power Divided is Power Checked: The Argument for States Rights." He is a close friend and gues of Rush Limbaugh and drew parallels between the legalization of same-sex marriage and the abolition of slavery, stating that the federal government should not have a role in either! Also called for a constitutional amendment allowing “any state to peaceably leave the union
HOW DO I DEAL WITH THIS ASSHAT! Because he sure doesn't represent me.
You continue to engage with him at all times, professionally and with your facts in order. Frustration is a reality of having elected officials. Democracy and citizen-based government is not easy; never has been and never will be. Keep at it.
Southern Elk
Well-known member
Randy, it sure would be nice if someone could put out a list of who is for and who is against. Many of us have asked to see it. If it exists, I haven't seen it. You would think BHA, TRCP, or someone would have a list or rating system to know who we were fighting against. And it would be a way to hold them accountable. I wish we didn't have to wait on an actual transfer or sale vote to know.
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James Riley
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The R vs D issue is a reality. For instance, when you people get me all motivated to the point where I actually want to run for office and champion our cause, I always run into the fact that I ain't going nowhere unless I pick a side, R or D. The Rs and Ds would kill me. Just a fact. Hell, even if a body were to pick a side, they still get no where (Sanders) if they aren't beholden to the almighty party. Trump is an exception; but I'm beginning to think maybe he really is an R, and just says what all those Rs who pretend to hate him are actually thinking but don't have the balls to say.
Hence my advice, given before: SWITCH! You don't have to vote for a D but the simple fact that the R rolls start to tank and the D rolls start to swell, along with the reasons stated, is the ONLY thing that will get their attention. This is you controlling your party instead of your party controlling you. It's the only trump card you got. If you stay and only voice your concerns or threaten to leave, then they got you. And they know it.
Imagine what would happen if every died in the wool Republican Conservative actually switched to the Democrat Party, along with a letter to their local Republican Party Headquarters stating why, and what could be done to get their return. PLT would be gone over night.
The only problem Rs have is that so many of them don't care about PLT, don't think they have a dog in the fight, or actually think PLT is a good idea. That's an R problem. D's switching to R to influence the Rs is a non-starter. That would be like Rs switching to D to get the Ds to back off on gun control. Dilution is not the solution to pollution.
My three cents.
Hence my advice, given before: SWITCH! You don't have to vote for a D but the simple fact that the R rolls start to tank and the D rolls start to swell, along with the reasons stated, is the ONLY thing that will get their attention. This is you controlling your party instead of your party controlling you. It's the only trump card you got. If you stay and only voice your concerns or threaten to leave, then they got you. And they know it.
Imagine what would happen if every died in the wool Republican Conservative actually switched to the Democrat Party, along with a letter to their local Republican Party Headquarters stating why, and what could be done to get their return. PLT would be gone over night.
The only problem Rs have is that so many of them don't care about PLT, don't think they have a dog in the fight, or actually think PLT is a good idea. That's an R problem. D's switching to R to influence the Rs is a non-starter. That would be like Rs switching to D to get the Ds to back off on gun control. Dilution is not the solution to pollution.
My three cents.
I don't know if such exists. You won't see it from the non-profit groups, as it would easily be tagged as political activity. They might give a scorecard of how some people voted, but that is not always a perfect way to identify where people are on an issue.
Whether your elected people are for Disposal/State Transfer or against Disposal/State Transfer, they still need to hear from you. They need to know you support their position, if they are on our side. Too often we end up just criticizing the offenders and not enough time thanking the supporters. That causes me to communicate my feelings on an issue to all my elected officials, whether they are on my side or against my side.
If I find such a list, I will post it here. Maybe look to see who ALC, ALEC, AFP have as their supposed good guys, and know they are probably the ones supporting the sale of your public lands.
utah400elk
Well-known member
I feel like I am spitting into the wind. I don't understand the push to take land from the people and more or less give it to the few. I don't understand how the sheeple vote these idiots into office. I have loved and cherished western federal lands but I am very worried my son won't be able to have the same opportunity that I have. I have been doing everything I can to try and stop this onslaught (called my reps/senators offices, written to the same and desperately have tried to educate everybody that I can). I am fearful that all the anti-fed nonsense is really taking hold and I am not really what Trump will do.
I have found myself more and more starting to hoard money in case things break bad. I will be forced to buy a few hundred acres of whitetail land and the elk, mule deer, and antelope hunting will be things we get to watch on TV and in old Primos videos.
I really hope I am wrong but my gut tells me things are really turning bad. I am shocked to see people who hunt federal public land stand up and say that the land should be transferred and sold. I don't understand how they don't see the writing on the wall. So many people are hung up on either "R" or "D" that they are literally missing the forest through the trees.
Don't get me wrong...I will keep up the good fight.
I have found myself more and more starting to hoard money in case things break bad. I will be forced to buy a few hundred acres of whitetail land and the elk, mule deer, and antelope hunting will be things we get to watch on TV and in old Primos videos.
I really hope I am wrong but my gut tells me things are really turning bad. I am shocked to see people who hunt federal public land stand up and say that the land should be transferred and sold. I don't understand how they don't see the writing on the wall. So many people are hung up on either "R" or "D" that they are literally missing the forest through the trees.
Don't get me wrong...I will keep up the good fight.
Nameless Range
Well-known member
Maps and or legal descriptions of what's potentially for sale. A lot of stuff I fish and use for recreation in the Butte district.
https://www.blm.gov/wo/st/en/prog/planning/planning_overview/lands_potentially0.html
https://www.blm.gov/wo/st/en/prog/planning/planning_overview/lands_potentially0.html
F
fwagner
Guest
Trying to predict my points/counter points doesn't make them any less true. You can choose to fight this battle in a weak position. A position where the Republican incumbent knows that following their party platform will in no way cause them losing an election. I prefer to not let them in the first place. You can rant, rave, and "flame away" about unity and making the Republican allies feel empowered till you are blue in the face. But until the Republican anti public land advocates lose their job....you will lose your land.
D
Deleted member 28227
Guest
Big Fin if you are able to get shapefiles of the lands in question or legal descriptions (State, Township, Range, Section) I can map out the lands and post them to the forum. I'm a GIS Analyst and have all the necessary software to handle the task.
Nameless Range
Well-known member
Nameless Range
Well-known member
Unconsolidated Legal descriptions and some maps.
https://www.blm.gov/wo/st/en/prog/planning/planning_overview/lands_potentially0.html
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James Riley
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That says it all, or most of it anyway. Thanks for sharing.
Did I say your points weren't true? No, I didn't. I affirmed they were true. Go back and read what I wrote.
Reality is, the anti-public land folks are in power right now. I have no choice but to fight from a weak position. Wishing they weren't in power solves nothing. If you want to express frustrations in a manner that weakens the cause, I guess that is what you'll do. I'll point out how that kind of lumping by absolute party lines weakens the cause.
I prefer if the anti-public land crowd was not elected in the first place, also. But right now, we don't have the luxury of sitting around and waiting until they lose their jobs. Our work is needed to make sure as many of them lose their jobs as possible. And to make sure we work with those on either side of the R/D line who can be helpful to protecting these lands.
Sorry to read of your resignation that the lands will be lost because Republicans haven't yet lost their jobs. I'm not inclined to adopt such a self-fulfilling attitude.
shoots-straight
Well-known member
The war has moved to the field now. Pull up your big boy panties and get ready to rumble. This thing is going to get dirty and we better be the ones left standing. We need all hands on deck, and everyone we know, need to be included in the discussion. Many of us on these social media sites knew this might happen, spoke about it, and took heat for months if not years over the possibilities. Still we were ignored. I hope Americans can see how dangerous and bad these people are that are trying to take our lands away.
onpoint
Well-known member
If this does not sum the whole thing up for you, you're a cement headed, self centered, oblivious and soulless SOB.................not sorry if you're offended
thanks, NR
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JoseCuervo
New member
Ditto to what Fin said, and, I will add the following.
The guy you are dealing with, likely got swept into office in the 2010 election on the wave of the TeaBaggers. This is where much of the genesis of this movement caught momentum. (It was always there, but the TeaBaggers/Koch Bros/2009 stuff enabled it.) Well, if you remember the Tea Party rallies, in total, there was only 250k of them marching in April 2009. And, these guys still feel they have a "mandate" off of that. For comparison, 3 million women marched last Saturday. That is a mandate.
So, to counter your guy. You do what we said. You call him. You write him a letter.
Then, get your brother to call him. Then your sister (she likely already is.). Then your Mom, your Dad. Your buddy. Your neighbor.
It really has to be grass-roots constituents. And get these guys thinking the earth is shifting under their feet, much faster than they ever thought. It may not work on every one of them, but, there are going to be a few that will see the light.
But, you have a Representative, and you have 2 Senators. That is 3 calls per week.
The only thing these guys fear more than losing the campaign donations of groups like the Koch Brothers is losing their jobs in Congress so they can't get the Koch Brothers donations.
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