Non Resident Sheep Hunting

[blue devil]

What state has the best opportunity to draw a sheep tag for non residents? and secondly with GOOD potential trophies. Doesn't have to be great potential and something that has a possibility of drawing a tag before I'm too old to hunt?

 

[warmer]

South Dakota if you have 100K to spend!

 

[BuzzH]

None...but you cant draw if you dont apply.

 

[havgunwilltravel]

New Mexico, border units of Arizona, Idaho , all have reasonable draw odds

 

[MTpubliclander]

You could get a unlimited Montana tag but the problem with that is you will probably do a lot of hunting without success.
But... you would get to see beautiful country with a sheep tag in your pocket. Not really a suggestion but it is an option.

 

[LopeHunter]

Hard to find better than 1 in 50 odds as a NR trying to draw a sheep tag. Most tags are closer to 1 in 150 odds. That means you need to apply in multiple States with the mindset may never draw a sheep tag. I apply in 8 states and have done so for over a decade and have no ram tags. Some States require you buy an annual license and all have non-refundable fees. I think I spend close to $1000 a year for sheep apps. I also apply for elk, etc, so spreads the license cost to other species. Overall, spend about $2500 not counting cost of tags that in some States must be fronted as apply so tie up $20k at peak of applications. WY, NM, CO and MT add up.

 

[30Gibbs]

I guess it depends on what type of bighorn sheep hunting you want to do. Here in Oregon we have two species of Bighorn sheep. The Rocky Mountain and the California. The California is a sub-species of the Rocky, much like a desert sheep, which resides in the more arid parts of the state. Oregon has fair odds for the non-resident sheep hunter, if there is such a thing in sheep drawing odds.

The Rocky Mountain Bighorns here in Oregon have taken a hit as of late. Disease has slowed the once great numbers in Northeast Oregon, but still offer the chance for a non-resident to take a trophy home and have a great hunt. The Lookout Mountain unit on the Snake River is the only non-resident opportunity here in Oregon to take a Rocky. This is by far the best unit for trophy rams. Two Oregon ladies have taken some brusier rams in the last few years scoring 194 and 191 respectfully. The average for the unit is 182 B&C.

Oregon is known world wide for its world class California Bighorn sheep, and the John Day River Canyon is home to some of the best. The John Day River Canyon is Oregon's little Grand Canyon and is separated by East and West sheep units. The hunter who draws this tag has the option to pay for access from local landowners from the top, or float the river and hunt from the bottom. The canyon itself consists of mostly public (BLM) land so this is a fantastic way to enjoy this once in a lifetime trip. Both East and West banks of the John Day are excellent, with the East side taking the most trophy rams since the hunt began. The average over the years have varied, but 169+ B&C comes to mind. More 170+ rams have come from the John Day, as well as a 184 and 180 have also been taken. South Central is another good unit to apply for, in the Southeastern part of the state. High scoring rams have been taken from this area as well, so don't overlook this as a possiblity.

Hope this helps, and I hope you draw a sheep tag somewhere. I have yet to draw and this year will make it my 30th year of applying here in Oregon. Like many say, apply for numerous states if you can afford it, that will definately up your odds over time. Good luck and good hunting.

Drawing Odds non-resident hunts
East John Day River 1-309
West John Day River 1-250
SouthCentral 1-295
Lower Owyhee 1-478
Hart Mountain Ref 1-214
E Beatys/Alvord 1-273

 

[bigeasygator]

There are some units in Idaho that have far and away the best sheep odds, but I wouldn't say the units are high success or hold trophy rams. Considering most decent sheep tags have a >1% chance of drawing them (some are more like a 1 in 1,000 or 1 in 10,000 chance), it's hard to think of any state as being the "best" opportunity -- the opportunity sucks regardless of the state when it comes to sheep! That being said, you'll definitely never draw one if you don't put in.

 

[Oak]

Colorado had odds of 1 in 8 for one of the non-resident archery tags last year.

 

[dwm4375]

Alaska has many areas where sheep tags can be purchased OTC. The cost is access (bush planes, as the OTC areas are rarely walk-in accessible) and guide (required for non-residents). You'd probably hunt sheep sooner by skipping the applications and putting those non-refundable fees into a savings account, and going to Alaska when you can afford it.

A $100 application and 1 in 150 odds mean the average would be $15,000 spent applying to hunt (some guys draw quick and pay less, some guys never draw). I'd rather just save up and know I'm going to hunt when I have the $15-20k to do it.

 

[Bambistew]

I wouldn't count on AK tags being a sure thing for much longer.

 

[mdunc8]

A $100 application and 1 in 150 odds mean the average would be $15,000 spent applying to hunt (some guys draw quick and pay less, some guys never draw).

That also means the average hunter is at least 150 years old...

 

[1_pointer]

I wouldn't count on AK tags being a sure thing for much longer.

That's the handwriting I'm seeing on the bathroom stall. Once that's the case the price for a NR, due to the guide requirement, will only go up faster.

 

[The Hedgehog]

Bambi figured it out. Move to AK, or if you like to live in MT, get hitched to an AK that has resident first blood there.. don't know anybody whose had that cross their mind.

 

[Bambistew]

I'm not sure anyone know exactly what will happen when NR are put on a quota. Most hard core sheep hunters are already going to Canada because its a better value. Really only a couple thousand more $, very limited competition and a sheep hunt that most are looking for.

The price of a permit for NR is likely to go up, but even if it doubled it would still be a bargain, IMO and about the same price as a tag in MT.

If I had to look into a crystal ball, I would bet that NRs are going to be limited to 10% of permits issued. Which will be around 225-250. A lot of details to work out, but figure about a 50% reduction in NR permits issued if that's the case. Right now there is no cap, and you can get a tag OTC. IF it goes to a draw, expect everyone that wants to get a "once in a lifetime" hunt to line up for a tag and make the odds of getting drawn much less than 1:2 which would be expected by a 50% reduction.

Its a tricky situation on how to manage it. To be honest I'd rather see outfitters capped via a concession program and thus reduce the number of NR they can take. That way the tags could still be OTC and no one would have to "draw". The down side is it will make a hunt price would up and basically eliminate people by virtue of pricing them out.

There are currently 2 bills in the legislature, one in the house and one in the senate to bring the Guide Concession Program back. Personally I hope it passes, as a resident I have nothing to lose. NR have everything to gain, and the bad apple guides will be left holding their d. APHA (Alaska Professional Hunters Association) is 100% on board with the program as is the DNR, F&G along with many other groups. The only ones who are against it are a few guides who are not members of APHA. Basically it will create a program similar to the federal program on ANWR. The program allows for a set number of guides in a use area, and they have to compete for a concession. Seems like a pretty good deal for everyone. It has a long ways to go, and if it passes, a NR draw will be unlikely. The F&G can basically manage "take" via the DNR managing the total number of sheep hunters.

Expect a hunter survey to be coming out shortly. I believe it will be going to all hunters who have hunted sheep in AK in the last 5 years. The findings are supposed to be published this fall, and hopefully it will give the Board of Game some information that will allow them to actually do something instead of sitting on their hands like they have for the last 4+ years.

 

[1_pointer]

I'm not sure anyone know exactly what will happen when NR are put on a quota. Most hard core sheep hunters are already going to Canada because its a better value. Really only a couple thousand more $, very limited competition and a sheep hunt that most are looking for.

The price of a permit for NR is likely to go up, but even if it doubled it would still be a bargain, IMO and about the same price as a tag in MT.

If I had to look into a crystal ball, I would bet that NRs are going to be limited to 10% of permits issued. Which will be around 225-250. A lot of details to work out, but figure about a 50% reduction in NR permits issued if that's the case. Right now there is no cap, and you can get a tag OTC. IF it goes to a draw, expect everyone that wants to get a "once in a lifetime" hunt to line up for a tag and make the odds of getting drawn much less than 1:2 which would be expected by a 50% reduction.

Its a tricky situation on how to manage it. To be honest I'd rather see outfitters capped via a concession program and thus reduce the number of NR they can take. That way the tags could still be OTC and no one would have to "draw". The down side is it will make a hunt price would up and basically eliminate people by virtue of pricing them out.

There are currently 2 bills in the legislature, one in the house and one in the senate to bring the Guide Concession Program back. Personally I hope it passes, as a resident I have nothing to lose. NR have everything to gain, and the bad apple guides will be left holding their d. APHA (Alaska Professional Hunters Association) is 100% on board with the program as is the DNR, F&G along with many other groups. The only ones who are against it are a few guides who are not members of APHA. Basically it will create a program similar to the federal program on ANWR. The program allows for a set number of guides in a use area, and they have to compete for a concession. Seems like a pretty good deal for everyone. It has a long ways to go, and if it passes, a NR draw will be unlikely. The F&G can basically manage "take" via the DNR managing the total number of sheep hunters.

Expect a hunter survey to be coming out shortly. I believe it will be going to all hunters who have hunted sheep in AK in the last 5 years. The findings are supposed to be published this fall, and hopefully it will give the Board of Game some information that will allow them to actually do something instead of sitting on their hands like they have for the last 4+ years.

Thanks for the update/info! Limiting the number of NR tags and/or guides will increase prices. Not a huge problem for me as I'm all but priced out currently...

I'd like to see the limiting of the tags coincide with a dropping of the guide requirement. I'd gladly put up with much lower draw odds for not having to pay a guide. If I did want to hire a guide, not having the requirement would probably make the guide prices lower. That'd be about the only way I can see myself ever hunting white sheep.

 

[Flatrock]

Montana's has some outstanding odds for sheep in the unlimited units. Odds run right about at 100%.

 

[dwm4375]

That also means the average hunter is at least 150 years old...

A good example of average (mean) being a goofy statistic. The mode (most common result) of sheep hunter age in a random draw with 1:150 odds is never drawing a tag. The mean for all successful hunters is the mean for all applicants (in a truly random draw).

When I looked at Wyoming a couple years ago I realized (if tags were issued at the same rate and nobody dropped out) there were 100+ years worth of people in line in front of me. Wonder what that will make the average age in 20-30 years if the system remains unchanged?

 

[mdunc8]

Thanks for the stats lesson

While I understand the overall point of your post, it's a bit misleading to say that ANYONE, let alone the average person, has spent or will ever spend $15,000 on drawing related fees in your example.

 

[dwm4375]

Thanks for the stats lesson

While I agree with the overall point of your post, it's a bit misleading to say that ANYONE, let alone the average person, has spent or will ever spend $15,000 on drawing related fees in your example.

Exactly, nobody will likely spend $15,000 on drawing fees - just for every guy who spends $100 and gets a tag, (on average) 149 people will spend $100 and not get anything.

In my case, the best way to get a sheep tag would involve a time machine back to when I was single and childless, and a few years living in the great state of Alaska.