Newbie question here

[Bucksnort31]

So I am new to this whole big three biz. But I only got eyes on one! I have recently begun exploring what it would take to get after a big horn sheep, and I am shocked and how freaking WILD it is!!! What's the deal? I love conservation, I am a hunter, but it looks like my venture is going to take a while just to get a tag.

So my newbie question if you gents would enlighten me is... which of all the lower 48 states is the most cost effective for the application process? How I see it is (and please correct me if I am wrong) but being a NR I have to flip $2000+ just to apply in Colorado? I know you get it back after some time, but still, that's some cash. Montana is non-refundable and $85... again, if I am correct. Now Montana is cool with me, but Colorado seems ridiculous. And in all honesty I am assuming I am probably missing something.

So any insight you guys have on this topic of the financials for just applying is appreciated! I will continue to dig, but I appreciate being pointed in the right direction.

Thanks fellas, and any ladies that might be out there!

 

[Southern Elk]

It's like playing the lottery. I would love nothing more than to hunt bighorn sheep, but the odds are so bad as a NR that I don't even try. Not trying to discourage you. I wish you the best of luck.

 

[Flatland Crusoe]

The states where you have to loan out $1k-2k have way better odds than those where you just pay a small fee by an order of magnitude. Idaho Mountain Goat is about is as good of a NR sheep/goat hunt as you will find if you are starting in now as they don't have points at around 2% draw odds.

If you want to hunt moose then AK or Canada can be done more or less whenever you want. MT ewe tags are can be had within a few years of applying and NM is the same way but the tag costs are through the roof.

I think the going rate is around 8-10k for a guided mountain goat hunt in AK and about 18K+ for a guided sheep hunt.

 

[MTGomer]

Montana has 5 unlimited units. Buy a tag next year and go.

 

[Bucksnort31]

I get the odds, I have been reading up... I have started collecting lucky rabbit feet. By the dozens!

So that I did not know the higher $$ ones have the best odds. I'll look into Idaho, thanks!

And MTGomer, i'll pass on that unlimited action. I am picturing it to be something like public land here with the orange army out in full force. What's the story on that though? Did they just open up a previously protected area? Or is it an area that has low kill % and so no one wanted it so they made it open to the public?

 

[TheDudeAbides]

So I am new to this whole big three biz. But I only got eyes on one! I have recently begun exploring what it would take to get after a big horn sheep, and I am shocked and how freaking WILD it is!!! What's the deal? I love conservation, I am a hunter, but it looks like my venture is going to take a while just to get a tag.

So my newbie question if you gents would enlighten me is... which of all the lower 48 states is the most cost effective for the application process? How I see it is (and please correct me if I am wrong) but being a NR I have to flip $2000+ just to apply in Colorado? I know you get it back after some time, but still, that's some cash. Montana is non-refundable and $85... again, if I am correct. Now Montana is cool with me, but Colorado seems ridiculous. And in all honesty I am assuming I am probably missing something.

So any insight you guys have on this topic of the financials for just applying is appreciated! I will continue to dig, but I appreciate being pointed in the right direction.

Thanks fellas, and any ladies that might be out there!

It will be cheaper to save 15-20 grand for a Dall Sheep hunt, than to apply in all states every year for sheep.

There are tag fronting services that will float the fees for you, but they are not cheap as they charge hundreds of dollars in fees.

Idaho and New Mexico are lottery states that require the tag fees up front, but limit the amount of tags to up to 10% (Idaho) and up to 10% (Guided) / % 6 Non Resident (Unguided) respectively.

Utah is the cheapest to apply too, but your odds are terrible.

Colorado has a funky system and it costs a bunch to apply.

Wyoming playing in the 25% of the random draw will take a lot of luck and also costs a pretty penny to apply. $100 point a year.

Utah doesn't give out many tags, but is cheap to apply.

Nevada has a bonus point squared system and gives out the most desert big horn tags, but is a $200 a year unsuccessful adventure.

Arizona is $200 a year to apply and has a screwy system

Montana is cheap to apply and is a bonus point squared state, but you are limited to up to 10% of the tags as an NR.

Texas gives out one tag that is only $10 to apply and is guided by fish and game from my understanding.

Oregon is another $200 to apply.

Don't know much about Washington, but I think it is $70 or so to apply.

Odds are that you will not draw anything of these in a lifetime.

The best thing to do to hunt sheep is to save money and buy hunts.

You could have an alternate strategy in which you apply and hunt other species such as deer, bear, elk, antelope in a state on your way to sheep tag that may never come.

 

[TheDudeAbides]

The states where you have to loan out $1k-2k have way better odds than those where you just pay a small fee by an order of magnitude. Idaho Mountain Goat is about is as good of a NR sheep/goat hunt as you will find if you are starting in now as they don't have points at around 2% draw odds.

New Mexico charges 3,000+ up front for sheep and it doesn't make their draw odds any better for NR's.

Maybe they missed the 1-2 grand memo.

 

[Bucksnort31]

This right here was meant to be..thanks Dude, because honestly I am calmer than you are! My hands down favorite movie, I made my now wife watch it with me on our first date some 10 years ago. She liked it... I kept her.

ANYWAY, SUPER helpful info. This is what I was looking for. Alot to consider, alot to look into. Honestly you have me questioning my tactics and maybe just go for a goat. Which I am assuming is practically the same hunt/experience. Thanks Dude!

 

[Southern Elk]

Be like Lloyd. He would go for it.

 

[MTGomer]

The unlims are just huge country, low sheep density.


You could join the WSF and the less than one club, then take the family to Reno, skiing at Tahoe every year for a vacation, and attend the sheep show.
They give out 3 world class hunts for less than one members that are present. Your odds in that are much higher than most draws. Plus they are hunts the average guy can't afford.

 

[Bambistew]

I looked at all the tags available or issued for sheep in the US a few years back (so its a bit dated). Every state has its own allocation method. Either by cap, or percentage. Some states issue ewe tags as well. I didn't inlcude MT unlimited tags, but the totals reflect all sheep tags issued. I noted MT because I know the regs well, but I'm not sure on the rest for ewe tags. I didn't make it an all inclusive research project, was only interested in comparing approximate total number of permits issued. Also not sure if the quota includes raffle and or auction permits. Generally each state issues at least one permit by raffle/auction. Odds of drawing tags is between 1:100 in some ID units excluding caps, to 1:1000 or more in some states.

Cost of NR tags is approximate, including license and fees.
State, fee and NR allocation
WY - $2,250 - 55 (25/75 split between max point holders and random draw)
ID - $2,200 - 8 (no points)
CO - $1,950 - 23 (3 base points, then "bonus points", Includes archery tags)
UT - $1,600 - 8 (not sure on points)
AZ - $1,550 - 10 (not sure on point system)
NV - $1,340 - 33 (squared points)
MT - $1,100 - 14 (squared bonus points, includes 4-5 ewe tags, excludes UL tags)
NM - $2,300 - 6 (no points, 2 general, 4 to outfitters only)
WA - $????- 4 (didn't dig too far into it, point system, not sure how it works)
OR -$???? - 7 (believe its random, no points for sheep)
CA -$???? - 1?
AK - $500 - Unlimited (averages 450 NR hunters each year) (next of kin of resident or outfitter required)

Personally I would take MTGomers advice and go on an UL sheep hunt. The odds of killing a ram in an UL area are better than you ever drawing a tag...

Best of luck in your adventure!

 

[SteveE]

And MTGomer, i'll pass on that unlimited action. I am picturing it to be something like public land here with the orange army out in full force. What's the story on that though? Did they just open up a previously protected area? Or is it an area that has low kill % and so no one wanted it so they made it open to the public?

This is the best advice you could get if you truly want to hunt sheep in your lifetime. I promise you it is nothing like public land hunting VA. The minute you see the country you will stop worrying about the orange army.

Just an idea but I would suggest focusing on a mtn goat tag. Better hunt imo and you actually have a chance on drawing a tag in your lifetime. A half body goat mount is as good as it gets. Most goats are earned. Some sheep hunts are silly easy and it has developed into the rich man trophy. Harvest a mtn goat and you accomplished something.

The unlimited sheep tag is as tough as it gets. A true adventure even if you don't see a sheep.

 

[bobbydean]

MtGomer gave the best advice. Look at some of the recent posts. I think there was a bowhunt in the unlimited area. Excellent hunters came through. Watch it! Never saw another hunter. Takes a superior hunting team and a lot of luck. Can be done.

Or, you can draw for a 1 in 10,000 tag.

I cannot draw a 1 in 100 draw.

Please watch that video. It was totally outstanding!

 

[----]

MtGomer gave the best advice. Look at some of the recent posts. I think there was a bowhunt in the unlimited area. Excellent hunters came through. Watch it! Never saw another hunter. Takes a superior hunting team and a lot of luck. Can be done.

Or, you can draw for a 1 in 10,000 tag.

I cannot draw a 1 in 100 draw.

Please watch that video. It was totally outstanding!

That video isn't really representative of what the unlimited hunts are. That was a pretty unique hunt that will likely never happen again. The terrain in the other unlimited areas is much more extreme than the Tendoys, and that ram they killed wouldn't have been legal anywhere else in the state.

 

[Bucksnort31]

Gents... really great advice all around! I do appreciate you all. And I tell ya what, ya'll have me thinking otherwise on the unlimited in MT, and/or a goat hunt. It is about the country/experience which I have not had a chance to see yet. Which was the draw for the sheep hunt, but it certainly seems to be a freaking REACH to make that happen.

Bambistew, thanks for the breakdown... detailed info, and I appreciate that very much!

 

[MThuntr]

MtGomer gave the best advice. Look at some of the recent posts. I think there was a bowhunt in the unlimited area. Excellent hunters came through. Watch it! Never saw another hunter. Takes a superior hunting team and a lot of luck. Can be done.

Or, you can draw for a 1 in 10,000 tag.

I cannot draw a 1 in 100 draw.

Please watch that video. It was totally outstanding!

The local area where this was filmed was swarming with hunters from the second they announced the hunt...most of them looking to shoot one of the sheep that frequented the road. The Sitka guys hiked in from a different side and managed to get one of the few rams but other forum conversations suggest that even the Sitka crew bumped into a bunch of guys which they likely cut out of the film. As Randy said this was a unique situation with the goal of completely removing the sheep herd.

 

[bobbydean]

Obviously, I was wrong in my assessment, but was still a great job by the hunters. Good hunters can always get it done. Sorry for the bad advice. Just reading the forums without all the facts.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

You can certainly try the unlimited hunt but I totally disagree with bobbydean on good hunters can always get it done when it comes to the MT unlimited hunt. You do that hunt because you want to get out there and see some amazing country not to kill a sheep. I have two buddies who worked as sheep guides for two different outfitters and between their two companies they harvested 2 sheep in 10-15 years. That hunt is rough and to say the areas are huge is an understatement.

 

[grandejuan]

Yes, it's a tough draw, so don't apply and make it easier for those who do. I have been on 6 sheep hunts. Three of which I have drawn the permits, AZ desert, AZ rocky and Col rocky(NR). I have four sheep on my wall including a B&C rocky from AZ. Just so you won't think to bad of me,I've hunted Stone's twice for 28 days and never saw a legal ram with one of the better Toad river guides and all I have is pictures of some beautiful country. Keep applying, I personally know of one gent who drew an AZ resident rocky tag with only 6 points, so it can happen. GJ

 

[Hunting The 406]

It won't happen if you don't apply. I put in for the first time this year, and forgot all about it until my success letter showed up in the mail. I drew a resident ram tag for the upper Missouri River Breaks 680 unit with zero points. Yes, zero. :hump: