I should apologize to Randy for this

[Gellar]

How many times have we heard that red flag laws won't be enforced?

They said it before the law passed, and they were right.

Obviously it wouldn’t be possible to catch everyone nor would it be good to just ban everyone from accessing schools or buying guns because someone reported them, but I think a report of someone who is deemed a threat should be thoroughly investigated.

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

Red flags do work sometimes.

I'll tell a story.
After my son was born my ex wife went off the deep end on me. She up and left when he was 3 months old and took him with her. One day she was texting me and arguing so I texted back "I'm not doing this anymore, I'm done life is not meant to be lived this way. Goodbye"

She took this as I meant I was going to kill myself. She called cops and about 3 hours after that text 3 cops show up at my buddies garage where I was shooting the shit. How they knew I was there I can only figure they tracked my phone. Anyways they ask for me and I go outside they ask if I sent the text in question and if I was thinking about killing myself. I said no I'm fine. This incident flagged me and subsequently was denied getting a gun for that reason. Still currently can't purchase a gun.

Fun times!

 

[MLC]

Our nation is faced with a complex problem that is a puzzle with many pieces. I don’t have all the answers but I think I have a few.

1. People, not many but a few, have been committing suicide for centuries. It is not a new phenomenon. What has become more common during the past few decades is the desire of the suicidal person to end their own life while at the same time killing other innocent people knowing knowing full well what a large publicity/media event their actions will create. So it seems to me we should remove at least one of their motives. Stop releasing their name to the public, stop publishing their picture and for Gods sake, stop lowering every flag in the nation to half staff. It makes absolutely no sense and it plays into the hand of the criminal (emotionally deranged or not). Remember how common the lone idiot running onto the field at baseball or football games used to be. What stopped/reduced it? The media’s refusal to televise it!

2. If there are teachers or other school employees willing to “pack” following stringent training then allow it and post signage on entrances that (some) staff in the building are armed and trained.

3. There are qualified people in very community willing to volunteer as “guards” at their communities school. Train them and allow them to help. Former police officers, former military vets, former security guard, and on and on.

4. Make access to mental health services less complex. Have real people answer the phones, not computers and voice mail telling you how important your call is while you wait on hold for 15 minutes.

As I eluded to in the beginning. A puzzle with many pieces.

 

[Addicting]

Sociopaths don’t care. The criminally insane don’t care. Those seeking glory and/or vengeance don’t care. Hell a fair number of these crazies killed their family before going on the rampage.

But some may and it’s something verses the nothing currently proposed.

Had those parents here in MI understood what hell they were in for on the day the school called them, they most definitely would have intervened before the shooting happened.

 

[woods89]

I’m getting the full kit.
Can’t wait to show up at darnells shooting range dressed like this, smoking a clove.

View attachment 270356

Off topic, but......

I grew up shooting really cheap shotguns. A year and a half or so ago I had an opportunity to buy a CZ Redhead Premier 20 GA from a customer. Nice wood, silver receiver, etc. The fancy shotgun guys on here will laugh, but every time I pull it out I feel a little bit like the guy in that picture!

 

[gouch]

When I came on the forum this morning it had one reply, I suspected it would kick off with plenty of differing views.
I read a bit then a topic crept in so I stopped reading.
However, I just thought I would leave you with this stat where I live in a country of 70 million

List of mass shootings in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Cheers
Richard

Clearly this is primarily an American phenomenon. It would seem that we could look to the rest of the world to see what they are doing right in order to see what we are doing wrong.

 

[VikingsGuy]

But some may and it’s something verses the nothing currently proposed.

Had those parents here in MI understood what hell they were in for on the day the school called them, they most definitely would have intervened before the shooting happened.

There is no question in my heart that I am anti-Dukakis and I would full-on want to meet out personal medieval justice. But that will not save a single life.

In fact, even saying that to your family can put them at risk. I had a buddy whose daughter ended up in a very dicey situation with a horrible boyfriend and one night she chose not to call her father for help just before she was beaten and raped because he had always said he would kill any man who assaulted his little girl and she was afraid if she called he would kill the guy and go to jail. Think about it, a 19 yr old girl on the verge of a beating and rape having to worry about her father's manly rhetoric. Finding that out several years later almost killed my buddy - it took a lot of counseling to put that family back together. I have taken that horrible lesson to heart and have always told my daughters, call and I will be there to keep you safe - no questions, no drama. They don't benefit from any manly bravado I may feel like spouting. The tough guy thing has never worked and never will.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

Not if you have had your rights revoked. Being a citizen with rights is something we can change.

So do we revoke their constitutional right to due process along with the freedom from cruel and unusual punishment? Maybe take away right to a speedy trial and protection from self incrimination too?

Heck we could just throw them all in a big cage and go all hunger games too.

 

[Deleted member 18333]

I'm opposite of a lot of the opinions here. I actually thing a lot has been done over the last 30 years when it comes to mental health and acceptance of everything. Hell how many shootings may have been stopped because of this that we will never know.
It's not like a person goes on the news and says man I was gonna go blast this mall up and then one day I decided nah I'm not gonna now cause my football coach said something that changed my life.

Completely agree. Then ask yourself if this is true why have mental health issue’s increased in the US?

 

[Addicting]

So do we revoke their constitutional right to due process along with the freedom from cruel and unusual punishment? Maybe take away right to a speedy trial and protection from self incrimination too?

Heck we could just throw them all in a big cage and go all hunger games too.

Yes. They are a domestic terrorist and deserve none of the rights good men died for them to have. Their decision to cross the line is their decision to not care about their outcome. Let’s grant that and not waste resources on it.

As far as hunger games I would rather their bodies be viable for organ transplants.

No consequences on the books now are enough. If they were they wouldn’t do it. We need to step up the consequences. Especially in states without a death penalty.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

Yes. They are a domestic terrorist and deserve none of the rights good men died for them to have. Their decision to cross the line is their decision to not care about their outcome. Let’s grant that and not waste resources on it.

As far as hunger games I would rather their bodies be viable for organ transplants.

No consequences on the books now are enough. If they were they wouldn’t do it. We need to step up the consequences. Especially in states without a death penalty.

Well #*^@#* it. Just hit the nuclear codes and let’s be done with it.

 

[The Hedgehog]

I have no idea, perhaps some twisted version of Lutheranism? Is that a serious argument?

No argument, I was just curious to the Godliness back in those days. Google has some details. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Nazi_Germany

 

[Addicting]

But that will not save a single life.

They are my solution to part of it. Not perfect but a solution none the less. Put up your own plan if you’re so bold to say mine won’t save a life.

 

[Addicting]

Well #*^@#* it. Just hit the nuclear codes and let’s be done with it.

You want to nuke everyone because one person made a choice to loose their personal freedoms.

I expect better discussion from you. You have well thought out ideas and are better than that crap. What we are doing isn’t working. How about putting a idea down that we are already not trying and watching fail.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

You want to nuke everyone because one person made a choice to loose their personal freedoms.

I expect better discussion from you. You have well thought out ideas and are better than that crap. What we are doing isn’t working. How about putting an idea down that we are already not trying and watching fail.

And I expect better discussion from you than we can just strip away constitutional rights in order to make a point. Talk about a dangerous slippery slope.

PS…it was satire.

 

[VikingsGuy]

They are my solution to part of it. Not perfect but a solution none the less. Put up your own plan if you’re so bold to say mine won’t save a life.

More funding (private and public) for mental health care will save some. Reducing social stigma for seeking mental treatment will save some. A ramping down of the clownish weekend Rambo gun culture will save some. A toning down of rap/tv/movie/video game violence will save some. Better treatment for drug/alcohol addiction will save some. More funding for and accountability on child protective services will save some. A community wide push to discourage & punish bullying will save some. A dropping of the political rhetoric that insights distain for the “other” will save some. Less anti Jewish rhetoric will save some. Less anti Muslim will save some. Less anti LGTBQ+ rhetoric will save some. A reinvestment in working class jobs will save some.

Lots of ways that have been suggested many times before, but have been blocked at every turn. And none of which affect the 2A. It is all of us that are lazy cowards who refuse to act.

 

[Gus Chiggins]

Excuse me? People in Oregon don't believe in prisons?

Well that's curious because you have 15,000 people locked up somewhere in Oregon. Maybe they're just chained up on bike racks.

Almost that same number are homeless: "In Oregon, according to the federal data, there were 14,655 people, an increase of 22.5% since 2020."

Federal data confirms Oregon spike in homelessness

A new federal report shows what most Oregonians already know: The number of people sleeping on the streets in this state has spiked.

www.opb.org

A lot of them need help/treatment, but the addicts are not in jail either. They commit a crime and spend no jail time. It's complicated.

Recently in Portland a felon (for manslaughter I think, and sex offender) who'd gotten out of prison walked up to a mom and her son and punched the kid in the head, saying he wanted to go back to jail.

30-year-old sex offender punches 6-year-old boy on Alberta Street

A man is in jail Friday after Portland police say he punched a 6-year-old boy in the face when the child and his mother were out shopping Sunday morning in the Alberta neighborhood.

www.koin.com

Maybe you can reform him Buzz. Give him some tough love and all that

 

[Addicting]

And I expect better discussion from you than we can just strip away constitutional rights in order to make a point. Talk about a dangerous slippery slope.

PS…it was satire.

Ok, let’s legally redefine domestic terrorist to include these school shooters.

Hold a trial to review the school footage and decide if the person is the person on the video committing the crime. If so do they meet the new criteria.

Now they have due process.


Just because you don’t like my stance, doesn’t mean it’s not a thought out discussion. I understand it could be a slope. But at this point it’s a slope I am willing walk on if it saves my kids lives.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

But at this point it’s a slope I am willing walk on if it saves my kids lives.

And a lot of other folks would say the exact same thing about gun rights. So there you go…

 

[Addicting]

More funding (private and public) for mental health care will save some. Reducing social stigma for seeking mental treatment will save some. A ramping down of the clownish weekend Rambo gun culture will save some. A toning down of rap/tv/movie/video game violence will save some. Better treatment for drug/alcohol addiction will save some. More funding for and accountability on child protective services will save some. A community wide push to discourage & punish bullying will save some. A dropping of the political rhetoric that insights distain for the “other” will save some. Less anti Jewish rhetoric will save some. Less anti Muslim will save some. Less anti LGTBQ+ rhetoric will save some. A reinvestment in working class jobs will save some.

Lots of ways that have been suggested many times before, but have been blocked at every turn. And none of which affect the 2A. It is all of us that are lazy cowards who refuse to act.

I wish that would work, but up till now none of it has and kids keep dying. Something different has to happen and hoping for those changes won’t do it.