grizz protection, sidearm or pepper spray ?

[schmalts]

Greenhorn, i see that taurus also made a 41mag that is around 20oz. that is interesting to me as well. I guess the biggest advantage of a gun over spray is mental peace of mind while sleeping.
What the hell did the tree rats do when they were doused?? that must have been funny.
Damn, being a woman sucks sometimes. Pack it in pack it out, like i want a bunch of stanky gash plugs in my food hangin bag... If i was a woman i would.. ... be a slut hump

 

[jkhunterid]

I think it's nice of you guys to pack some pepper so the bear has a nice seasoned meal. The tazer was cool, but doesn't look like it would buy you enough time to shoot your hunting partner in the leg.

 

[Nightwolf]

When having a close encounter with a Griz your best defense is to know the signs of what the bear is planning to do. In most cases a bear is going to false charge you to provoke a response. If you don't move and it feels you are no threat, nine times out of ten it will leave. If you happen upon a bear the best thing to do is back away slowly. But if you real close you have to let it know your there bye saying hey bear or what have you. In this case it might just run away or let you leave by backing away. The last thing to do in any case is run.
Now if the bear has false charged once, you can tell by a change in there domineer that they plan to attack. And that is mainly going to be to just run your ass over. He’s not going to stand up and attack like in the movies. He is going to do his work on a four. Probably by batting you around like a rag doll. Bears have been known to get up to speeds of 35 MPH in a short distance that’s why running isn't an option. If you plan to use bear spray you probably want to use it at your soonest convenience. If he is false charging you need to spray him in the face. But be warned once you spray him you need to get out of there. Once he clears his senses the bear may return because bears are attracted to the pepper spray. If you’re using a gun, I would use nothing less then a 44 mag. you have to stop the bear. Not necessarily kill it. Because a bear with his adrenalin flowing can take several shoots into the boiler room and keep going. There was case of a group of 12 hunters killed on the Kodiak. They all emptied their rifles into that animal. At the seen it looked like a war zone all 12 men dead and bear with pretty much had no form of heart and lungs left. When placing a shot on bear it may be better to hit the ground playing dead then wait for the moment that he is trying to bite a shove the gun in his mouth and pull the trigger. Shooting at his head the bullets will just bounce right off it if you’re shooting anything less then a 50 bmg and even then it could happen depending on the maturity of the bear. When I shot my Brown bear at 10 yards I got a lucky shot into the side of his snout going right through the roof of his mouth and into his brain. That was with my .338 win mag. If you are going to take a shot it is best to break bear down by hitting his front shoulders or his legs to stop him from being able to continue forward movement. But these are tough shots. I think all in all you have to think clearly and stay calm any screaming or loud noises can provoke the bear. If you are talking to the bear keep a low tone of voice and back away slowly saying hey bear! hey bear!. If you are in the situation of a Sow and her cub or cubs. It is almost guaranteed that she will attack. Sows don't play what so ever. So in some way shape or form you are going to have to take her out, if she notices you in the vicinity of her cub. It’s not her fault but I’m sure a lot of you bear hunters know this but; male bears (boars) are thee number 1 predator for bear cubs. So when a Sow has to deal with that kind of threat she doesn't take things lightly.

 

[BigHornRam]

Schmalts,

My first hunt in grizzly country I had my unlimited area sheep camp set up in prime griz country less than a 1/2 mile from the park border. The night before opening day I woke up to the sound of padded feet walking around my tent. Then I heard the animal start to sniff the side of the tent. I looked over at my trusty rifle laying on my pack beside me. Then I remembered that the gun was empty....shells were still in the pack. Shitttttt!!!! Well by then I figured making a bunch of noise digging in my pack would only make things worse so I went back to sleep. An hour later I woke up to the sound of hooves walking around the tent.

I think for the most part bears will try to avoid humans and attacks are so rare that I would be more worried about the drive or flight out hunting than getting ate by a bear. Also make sure to do your cooking and eating a fair distance from your tent and hang your food from a tree in bear country. Where are you hunting this year that makes you so worried about bears?

 

[The Hedgehog]

Shooting at his head the bullets will just bounce right off it if you’re shooting anything less then a 50 bmg and even then it could happen depending on the maturity of the bear.

the shits getting deep in here.

Saw a bowhunting video where a guy brained one with a compound bow and it wasn't in the eyesocket, dropped it in it's tracks and it wasn't a cub.

I'll pass this question to a friend of mine who is an outfitter in AK, but during the offseason is a bear guard for oil fields in AK. He's seen some real action and is a died in the wool bowhunter when it comes to hunting.

 

[BigHornRam]

Nightwolf,

Any link to the 12 dead bear hunter story? This sounds a little far fetch to me.

 

[Nightwolf]

it's in alaskan bear tales. the book. it's all about bear attacks

About the head shooting thing. I'm sorry but i have seen real action. like i said i shot a brown bear at 10 yards. any closer and i would have been picking his nose with the barrel of my gun. if you would like to see the bear i killed go to the fireside chat look up my post hello guys and gals it's probably in the archives now.
Heres the facts! a bears head, especially brown bear and griz is extremely solid, on the back of there head and the bridge on there nose up between there eyes. check this website out and you can see my whole bear story plus pictures of my bears skull and you can see how thick the bone is. http://www.mooseheaven.com/world-record-grizzly-bear.htm
now that i've said my piece i'm sure your buddy who guides in Alaska will tell you shooting a bear in the head is a bad idea.

 

[pa mt man]

Nightwolf, I missed your story here, but I did recieve an email from my sister with that picture in it. I think it said someone shot it on an army base with a pistol and it was a new world record.
I only went bear hunting twice here in pa and really have no desire to hunt dangerous game.(The bears are tame here like the elk.)


Kudos on a great bear hunt.

 

[schmalts]

I also read on Bowsite that someone talked about a grizz attacking a warden as he released it from the trap in the truck and the warden shot it a bunch of times in the head and it didnt penetrate the skull. Now the question is was it because he was more than likely using hollow points like most cops or wardens do?
Now if you had some kind of copper jackets or low expansion bullets would it make a difference?? Greenhorn, what loads do you plan to use in yours?
Another point, a lot of you keep talking about 44mag as a minimum. Now are you saying that the 41mag is under that or over, because i looked up ballistics today and the 41 has more velocity and FTLB of energy than most all of the 44 mag loads. Another reason that the 41mag titanium that taurus made seems like a good choice, even over a 44. Look up the ballistics and tell me what you think.besides, i may be wrong but with 2 very similar ballistic types of bullets i would bank that the smaller diameter will penetrate better with the same given FTLB and Muzz vel.

 

[Nightwolf]

Now we are getting into a whole new debate about ballsitics. are smaller bullets going faster better then big bullets that don't travel as fast. Waht gets more penetration and what has more knock down power. Some of the natives in Alaska have been known to hunt and kill polar bears with .222's and dogs. they simply just shot them in the ear. however I am a big bullet type of person. i want to cause the max amount of damage with a larger bullet. The 41 cal your talking about probably would do it to, but your talking a bigger bullet then a .357. I carry a .44 as back up when i'm in the woods at home in Alaska. alot of other Alaskans carry the same or even bigger. there is a lot of guides out there that carry a cut down 45 70 it's called a guide gun. It all comes down to this guys do you want to carry the max to protect your self in dangerous game territory or are you going to carry something lite. Having been around bears a lot and having talked to guides such as Joe Want who is one of the most well known guides for brown bear in Alaska he will tell you that he is not going to screw around and take little caiber weapons in the field with the high precentage of encountering a Bear. It just plainly not safe. We can say oh i went to the island and shot a deer carrying nothing but my .243 and i didn't have any problem. but that means you took a risk alot of people are not willing to share.

 

[schmalts]

good point, but like you said, i will carry only a light gun or pepper spray. I will not lug a 3lb chunk of iron around for a week. I am not out looking for bear like a bear guide so i think it is less important to lug a cannon.

 

[The Hedgehog]

Maybe change the scope of the topic, backcountry bowhunting in the Yellowstone area and grizzly protection. Handguns can and do kill bears instantly if they are shot in the head. They don't have 1/2" steel plates around their skulls. I carry a good cast core heavy bullet, high velocity load, not a hollow point. It's better than nothing, when a bear trys chewing on me, I'll let you know how it works. Nobody around here carries a sawed off 45-70 while bowhunting.. some carry handguns, some carry pepper spray. Both have been used effectively. Nobody with either has every died that I know of around here, very few have been injured. See the stats I referenced above. Odds are about 1:25000 of being injured if you are a backcountry camper within Yellowstone park (has more bears than outside of park). Odds of being killed there are closer to 1:1,000,000. Bottom line is take what you feel more comfortable with, be smart and keep a clean camp.

 

[schmalts]

Greenhorn i think you are right on with that bullet choice. The stories i have been hearing about bullets not getting into the skull were probably hollow points because the stories always say it was a warden or cop that did the shooting. Most wardens and all cops load for humans, not animals. Hey, as far as you bear killer, i have seen conflicting reports on the weight. The smith websute lists it at 12oz, but on gunbroker.com guys there list that one at around 17oz. Makes sense since it has the longer barrel. Just for shits did you ever put yours on a scale?
I am looking at the smith 680 in .357 ( the real short one) and the taurus 415 titanium in 41mag as my only choices at this time. I doubt the smith is much heavier than most pepper sprays.

 

[ringer]

At 55 and after 24 years of going to Alaska I have given up. I took a small airhorn the second year and fished the bear preserve at the Brooks. Had a sow with cubs false charge me and scared me good. Later as I bent down the little airhorn in my waders went off and just about froze my dick off. Two years later I was wading a river in Yakutat and we had seen many bears. I had a .44 mag. I stepped into a hole and went to the bottom and had a true near death experience. I figure that when I am fishing and happy if they eat me then it will be a good way to go. Slim chance of having a problem and I don't want to lug around the weight of a pistol. That said I would definitely have a 12 guage with buck and slugs if I was camping on a hunt or fish trip.

 

[ELKCHSR]

That sounds exciting and scarry at the same time Ringer... Glad your still around...

 

[MarvB]

I bent down the little airhorn in my waders went off and just about froze my dick off

Now THAT'S funny I can see a couple of big ol' round bellies up on the bank watching ringer....one says to the other "You gonna eat that??"

....other bear answers, "Nope, I think I'll just sit here and watch the show!"

 

[schmalts]

the bears would be fighting over who ate the dicksickle

 

[SageGhost]

reply..

if only you could have asked the couple that just died in anwr because of a grizz..
definately.....454 cas,500 sw mag, 44mag, 480 ruger, 500 linebaugh,
45-70,460 sw mag, and 41mag,50 EA,50 GI, 440 auto mag,400 cor-bon,45 win mag, as for pepper spray.. save that for 2 legged drunk critters !!

 

[Steiny]

Yep, it's getting deep.
Don't think I can go along with the story about the bear killing twelve men who all emptied their guns into it either.

Forget the pistol and pepper spray. Take a rifle, .270 or bigger, something you can handle quickly and hit something with. The 12ga w/ alternating shots of 00 buck & slugs doesn't sound too bad either.

In reality, you've got a better chance of seeing Elvis or Jesus, than you do of being eaten by a bear.

Lower 48 bears that don't get hunted are probably the more dangerous ones, as they don't have much fear. Most hunted bears are just like any other game animal, and depart rapidly at the first hint of human activity.

 

[schmalts]

Guys, the advice i was after was for a protection while bow hunting. Hell, if i had a rifle what the hell would i need bear protection for??