Grazing fees, the economics of elk and cattle

[rogerthat]

Do you like paying Eric subsidies? I don't. My taxes are too high. There's no reason farmers and ranchers should be collecting government money AND earning well above the middle class.

You need to go work on a ranch RJ and get some perspective. There are always two sides to every argument. Until you walk in the shoes of both sides you will continue to not know what you don’t know.maybe someday you will learn this

 

[BuzzH]

Do you like paying Eric subsidies? I don't. My taxes are too high. There's no reason farmers and ranchers should be collecting government money AND earning well above the middle class.

I found some spare change in the cupholder of my truck...shoot me your address and I'll send you 6 cents of it to cover your portion of taxes you pay to cover the Albus subsidy.

There, now you and him can be friends again.

 

[406dn]

I do not have any animus toward farmers or ranchers. Two of my uncles farmed in eastern North Dakota. One of them was an avid hunter and I enjoyed his hunting stories. There are so many things that farmers and ranchers can't control, at all, that can wreck their profitability. That is some part of why they receive the subsidies they do.

My farrier is in the process of taking over his family's ranch. I've known him for over 20 years. He works his a$$ off.

We all work hard for our money, some work very hard for modest wages.

Perhaps the largest cultural divide in our country is the rural urban divide. I have always felt like I have one foot in each. If I had been born into a farming or ranching family, I have little doubt that I'd stayed with it.

 

[rjthehunter]

You need to go work on a ranch RJ and get some perspective. There are always two sides to every argument. Until you walk in the shoes of both sides you will continue to not know what you don’t know.maybe someday you will learn this

I worked on a couple of dairy farms in highschool. I have dairy farmers in the family. I've seen it from that side. I have the utmost respect and appreciation to them.

Do you think tax dollars should go to paying them? They're already making over 50% more than the median US income? The amount they're making is after they buy their brand new equipment.

I know lots of farmers. Big and small operations. 10,000s of acres, and ones that do 100 acres. From what I've seen and been told, the big ranchers and farmers do not need the subsidies.
 

Minnesota farmers received $1.5 billion in federal payments in 2021 • Minnesota Reformer

Most of the money flows to the biggest, wealthiest operations in any given area.

minnesotareformer.com

 

[Forkyfinder]

I worked on a couple of dairy farms in highschool. I have dairy farmers in the family. I've seen it from that side. I have the utmost respect and appreciation to them.

Do you think tax dollars should go to paying them? They're already making over 50% more than the median US income? The amount they're making is after they buy their brand new equipment.

I know lots of farmers. Big and small operations. 10,000s of acres, and ones that do 100 acres. From what I've seen and been told, the big ranchers and farmers do not need the subsidies.
 

Minnesota farmers received $1.5 billion in federal payments in 2021 • Minnesota Reformer

Most of the money flows to the biggest, wealthiest operations in any given area.

minnesotareformer.com

Buzz told me he wanted to pass this along - apparently helps to hunt those Wy ranches.

 

[antlerradar]

I worked on a couple of dairy farms in highschool. I have dairy farmers in the family. I've seen it from that side. I have the utmost respect and appreciation to them.

Do you think tax dollars should go to paying them? They're already making over 50% more than the median US income? The amount they're making is after they buy their brand new equipment.

I know lots of farmers. Big and small operations. 10,000s of acres, and ones that do 100 acres. From what I've seen and been told, the big ranchers and farmers do not need the subsidies.
 

Minnesota farmers received $1.5 billion in federal payments in 2021 • Minnesota Reformer

Most of the money flows to the biggest, wealthiest operations in any given area.

minnesotareformer.com

I don't make any where near 50% of median income and I work at least 340 days a year.

 

[Elky Welky]

I think all Eric Albus was saying was that most of society produces nothing as far as FOOD.

He could have just said that. But that’s not all he said.

Regardless, farming and ranching have their place, and I know many great farmers and ranchers. I don’t have a problem with my taxes going to continuing to help a necessary industry, which also can benefit the public’s wildlife. All of us have skill sets and jobs that contribute, either by growing the food or working a job that pays taxes back to the food operations, so it’s pretty circular and unnecessary to argue about who subsidizes/feeds whom.

So long as that farmer/rancher isn’t advocating to block my access to leased public ground that my taxes are also subsidizing, I don’t mind it being leased for grazing.

 

[rogerthat]

I worked on a couple of dairy farms in highschool. I have dairy farmers in the family. I've seen it from that side. I have the utmost respect and appreciation to them.

Do you think tax dollars should go to paying them? They're already making over 50% more than the median US income? The amount they're making is after they buy their brand new equipment.

I know lots of farmers. Big and small operations. 10,000s of acres, and ones that do 100 acres. From what I've seen and been told, the big ranchers and farmers do not need the subsidies.
 

Minnesota farmers received $1.5 billion in federal payments in 2021 • Minnesota Reformer

Most of the money flows to the biggest, wealthiest operations in any given area.

minnesotareformer.com

Let’s do a little math. So a ranch that neighbors my dad’s just sold for around $1500/acre for $2million. So that’s roughly 2 sections or 1280 acres. You can run roughly a cow on every 30 acres in this country so let’s just round up and say 43 cow calf pairs. Now let’s wean calves in the fall and sell our 43 calves for $2000/hd. That’s $86000. Life’s about opportunity cost so right now if I put that $2 million in a 12 month cd at 5.5% interest I would make $110,000. So how much am I actually making by working 12 hour days 7 days a week? Food for thought

 

[rjthehunter]

I don't make any where near 50% of median income and I work at least 340 days a year.

Do you own a ranch or work on a ranch?

 

[rjthehunter]

Let’s do a little math. So a ranch that neighbors my dad’s just sold for around $1500/acre for $2million. So that’s roughly 2 sections or 1280 acres. You can run roughly a cow on every 30 acres in this country so let’s just round up and say 43 cow calf pairs. Now let’s wean calves in the fall and sell our 43 calves for $2000/hd. That’s $86000. Life’s about opportunity cost so right now if I put that $2 million in a 12 month cd at 5.5% interest I would make $110,000. So how much am I actually making by working 12 hour days 7 days a week? Food for thought

Sounds like it would be beneficial to sell the ranch and live off the interest earned.

It sounds like poor country to try and graze cattle in at 30 acres per cow. Incredibly inefficient if nothing else. I don't think it's a good idea to run a business that's not profiting appropriately based on their location.

Personally, if I was doing a job that wasn't earning me enough money to be happy, I would change jobs. I wouldn't turn to the government.

 

[Trial153]

Let’s do a little math. So a ranch that neighbors my dad’s just sold for around $1500/acre for $2million. So that’s roughly 2 sections or 1280 acres. You can run roughly a cow on every 30 acres in this country so let’s just round up and say 43 cow calf pairs. Now let’s wean calves in the fall and sell our 43 calves for $2000/hd. That’s $86000. Life’s about opportunity cost so right now if I put that $2 million in a 12 month cd at 5.5% interest I would make $110,000. So how much am I actually making by working 12 hour days 7 days a week? Food for thought

Pick a more profitable location to raise cattle.

 

[Eric Albus]

I guess I'd attribute that to modern medicine and a better understanding of what is or isn't good for your body. We have also evolved quite a bit since then.

It's just a stupid comment in my mind, because sure, some people need beef, but his cattle are worthless without diesel and trucks to move them. If there's not a butcher at the meat locker, it's going to waste. If the meat locker wasn't designed by an architect and built by someone in construction, all of his beef would be worthless.

To say his ranch should be subsidized because it's the most important thing in the world is ridiculous. Besides, isn't he subsidizing it himself by outfitting off of the ranch?

where did I say anyone or anything should be subsidized?

 

[Eric Albus]

Pick a more profitable location to raise cattle.

There isn’t one.

 

[Forkyfinder]

There isn’t one.

Ever heard of Texas?

 

[rogerthat]

@Trial153 and @rjthehunter @MtEngineer this is likely as profitable of a spot in Montana as there is. Are you advocating for all cattle ranchers in Montana to sell out? The economics aren’t what you think. That’s my point. There are major benefits to wildlife in keeping traditional ranchers on the landscape. I’m okay with some small subsidies to do that.

 

[Eric Albus]

I worked on a couple of dairy farms in highschool. I have dairy farmers in the family. I've seen it from that side. I have the utmost respect and appreciation to them.

Do you think tax dollars should go to paying them? They're already making over 50% more than the median US income? The amount they're making is after they buy their brand new equipment.

I know lots of farmers. Big and small operations. 10,000s of acres, and ones that do 100 acres. From what I've seen and been told, the big ranchers and farmers do not need the subsidies.
 

Minnesota farmers received $1.5 billion in federal payments in 2021 • Minnesota Reformer

Most of the money flows to the biggest, wealthiest operations in any given area.

minnesotareformer.com

You continue to show your ignorance.

I wish gov’t would get out of farming/ranching, as do most if not all of us. Guess what, they aren’t. By the way, we all pay taxes too.

FYI, I’m not making 50% more than the median, and there is not any “brand new iron” on our farm/ranch.

 

[Trial153]

There isn’t one.

TX , OK, Nebraska, Missouri

 

[Eric Albus]

Ever heard of Texas?

Still can’t make a living. It’s easier there I’ll agree, in fact every River south of me it gets a little easier.


My statement was implying “you can’t go buy a ranch at $1500 an acre and make it pay”. Borrow the money for the land, and then there’s a little problem of buying cattle(don’t forget a few high price bulls) machinery etc..

 

[Forkyfinder]

Still can’t make a living. It’s easier there I’ll agree, in fact every River south of me it gets a little easier.


My statement was implying “you can’t go buy a ranch at $1500 an acre and make it pay”. Borrow the money for the land, and then there’s a little problem of buying cattle(don’t forget a few high price bulls) machinery etc..

Yeah? So?

 

[rogerthat]

Yeah? So?

So are you advocating for traditional ranchers to sell out in Montana? Is that’s what is best for hunting and wildlife? This is a hunting site