ESA as a political weapon

[ccc23454]

We have discussed before how the ESA has flaws and isnt working as designed and heres another example it seems. I admit i am personally bitter due to primarily the griz situation. While the ESA has had its sucesses i feel like its outlived its usefulness and has become tainted with courtroom decisions and political agendas.

This prairie chicken is Biden's latest weapon in his war on fossil fuels

President Biden and his administration want to virtually prohibit any new drilling for oil wells on land in my state of Kansas. They are doing this by designating a bird as endangered.

www.foxnews.com

 

[Wild Bill]

Somewhere on the internet, a CNN OpEd to this article is the topic of discussion and the title of the thread is something like "ESA protects wildlife that conservatives consider a burden"

 

[Dougfirtree]

The left is at least as frustrated as the right when it comes to how the ESA is used (or not). They just disagree on what the problem is.

 

[SAJ-99]

ESA has worked pretty well, despite its flaws. Be careful what you wish for, you might just get it.

 

[Sytes]

ESA is the $$$ blood for extreme enviromentalist organizations.
It's beyond tainted. ESA has been corrupted to the point it's merely a political football.

ESA should and must stay in tact though many people are not aware where your $'s go...
Prime example: Patagonia gear/clothing.

From Yvon Chouinard's Patagonia's "Action works" - proceeds from each item purchased goes directly into Action Works environmental organisations hands.

Examples:

Grizzly Times - Patagonia Action Works

Save the Yellowstone Grizzly - Patagonia Action Works

When griz consideration for delisting began, Yvon Chouinard's statement:

In the wake of the decision by U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service to delist the grizzly, the three states around Yellowstone have announced their intentions to sponsor trophy hunting of the bear. Opponents say that the effects of climate change on food sources, in addition to their famously slow reproductive rate, coupled with a trophy hunt, would put the bears on the path to extinction.

One example of many. Your money matters.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

In the listing decision, the Service included a 4(d) rule for the Northern DPS in response to concerns from states and livestock producers about the continuation of managed grazing. The Service found that managed grazing and prescribed fire can be valuable tools for maintaining grassland habitat preferred by LPCs and provided exemptions from prohibitions on take of LPC for routine agricultural activities on previously cultivated lands, use of prescribed fire for grassland management, and grazing under site-specific grazing management plans developed by a qualified party approved by the Service. In addition, oil and gas producers, renewable energy projects, and grazing enrolled under pre-existing CCAAs or Habitat Conservation Plans will be allowed to continue under the terms of those agreements or plans.

It’s hard to take the article very seriously.

 

[Gus Chiggins]

I wonder if the ESA is applied in the same way when deciding where to put or approve new solar and wind farms. I would hope so but who knows

 

[Deleted member 18333]

ESA has worked pretty well, despite its flaws. Be careful what you wish for, you might just get it.

Debatable for sure

According to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, 2,367 species or subspecies have been listed under the U.S. Endangered Species Act. Some 1,672 are found in the U.S., as of Oct. 12, 2022. Since its inception, only 54 species have been delisted from the act due to recovery, while 56 species have been downgraded from endangered to threatened. Other species have been delisted due to extinction—the USFWS announced 23 extinctions in 2021.

“Delisting due to recoveries are quite low,” Eberhard said.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

Debatable for sure

According to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, 2,367 species or subspecies have been listed under the U.S. Endangered Species Act. Some 1,672 are found in the U.S., as of Oct. 12, 2022. Since its inception, only 54 species have been delisted from the act due to recovery, while 56 species have been downgraded from endangered to threatened. Other species have been delisted due to extinction—the USFWS announced 23 extinctions in 2021.

“Delisting due to recoveries are quite low,” Eberhard said.

One could easily argue the measures in the conservation plans are not stringent enough, given this data.

Doesn’t mean the ESA should be discarded, IMO. Maybe it’s the best it can be and still honor private property right?

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

We have discussed before how the ESA has flaws and isnt working as designed and heres another example it seems. I admit i am personally bitter due to primarily the griz situation. While the ESA has had its sucesses i feel like its outlived its usefulness and has become tainted with courtroom decisions and political agendas.

This prairie chicken is Biden's latest weapon in his war on fossil fuels

President Biden and his administration want to virtually prohibit any new drilling for oil wells on land in my state of Kansas. They are doing this by designating a bird as endangered.

www.foxnews.com

Weird place to start a war on fossil fuels...

Estimated range of Lesser Prairie-Chicken versus location of US rigs.



Here is Peak Production from Wells drilled in the last 2 years (BOE so gas wells overshadow oil wells a bit).

This says to me that the Lesser Prairie Chicken habitat is mostly outside of the core of the plays. Mostly it's small mom and pop operations and wildcatters that are drilling in the Chicken range.

Seems more likely that this is less of "an attack on the fossil fuel industry" and more of a "well curtailing drilling here will have marginal effect on domestic production or the industry as a whole and will protect an embattled species".

 

[Ben Lamb]

Debatable for sure

According to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, 2,367 species or subspecies have been listed under the U.S. Endangered Species Act. Some 1,672 are found in the U.S., as of Oct. 12, 2022. Since its inception, only 54 species have been delisted from the act due to recovery, while 56 species have been downgraded from endangered to threatened. Other species have been delisted due to extinction—the USFWS announced 23 extinctions in 2021.

“Delisting due to recoveries are quite low,” Eberhard said.

Delisting as the criteria for success ignores the real success which is ensuring they don't go extinct.

 

[Deleted member 18333]

One could easily argue the measures in the conservation plans are not stringent enough, given this data.

Yes they sure could. Could also argue that in its current state its wildly ineffective.

Doesn’t mean the ESA should be discarded, IMO. Maybe it’s the best it can be and still honor private property right?

Agree. Would never argue in favor of doing away with it. Might very well be the best we can do. Could also be small changes to increase effectiveness and decrease lawyer fees.

 

[Deleted member 18333]

Delisting as the criteria for success ignores the real success which is ensuring they don't go extinct.

A decent number of listed species still go extinct. Sounds like a decent data point to at the very least question the ESA's effectiveness. Would you not agree?

 

[Ben Lamb]

A decent number of listed species still go extinct. Sounds like a decent data point to at the very least question the ESA's effectiveness. Would you not agree?

I think you need ask.why they go extinct if listed.

That means looking at all of the carve outs for industry, 10j rule.exemptions, etc.

It's not a simple data point or an easy explanation. The biggest flaw in the ESA is us

 

[Deleted member 18333]

I think you need ask.why they go extinct if listed.

That means looking at all of the carve outs for industry, 10j rule.exemptions, etc.

It's not a simple data point or an easy explanation. The biggest flaw in the ESA is us

The only flaw with the ESA is us. Its written by us, interpreted by us, manipulated by us, etc. It will only be potentially made more effective by us.

 

[Ben Lamb]

The only flaw with the ESA is us. Its written by us, interpreted by us, manipulated by us, etc. It will only be potentially made more effective by us.

We've all met us.

 

[Deleted member 18333]

We've all met us.

I have a high opinion of most of us.

 

[SAJ-99]

Debatable for sure

According to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, 2,367 species or subspecies have been listed under the U.S. Endangered Species Act. Some 1,672 are found in the U.S., as of Oct. 12, 2022. Since its inception, only 54 species have been delisted from the act due to recovery, while 56 species have been downgraded from endangered to threatened. Other species have been delisted due to extinction—the USFWS announced 23 extinctions in 2021.

“Delisting due to recoveries are quite low,” Eberhard said.

It is hard to debate for or against its effectiveness because you have to project what would have happened had it not been created. That involves a lot of speculation. The path many of these species were on in 1973 was not a good one, so almost anything can be considered a win. Another criticism is that a lot of the public focus is on the high-profile animals (bears, eagles, etc) and not the less warm and fuzzy ones like some rare snail that lives in a particular section of a particular river. I think habitat is key and the more niche the habitat the more likely it is for the animal to stay on the list, or disappear forever.

My point is many have a taken a turn in this country away from the "Administrative State" (sounds very 1984, doesn't it?). We certainly have a Supreme Court that leans that way. There are currently challenges not only to the ESA, but regulatory bodies like the EPA, SEC, etc. It is easy to take one case, like grizzlies, and say the ESA is broken so let's get rid of it. But to take away the Federal power to dictate what happens on Federal Land or regulate what gets dumped into a waterway has some serious downside impacts. Most recent example was FDIC/Fed Reserve and Silicon Valley bank. A lot of politicians (and citizens) want it both ways, take out the burdensome regulations but don't have anything bad happen. Unfortunately, nothing works that way.

 

[Gus Chiggins]

Another criticism is that a lot of the public focus is on the high-profile animals (bears, eagles, etc) and not the less warm and fuzzy ones like some rare snail

Like a tortoise. Here's a solar farm/facility in Nevada that was approved by the prior administration but concerned an ESA threatened tortoise.

The tortoise vs. the bulldozer

In Nevada’s race to a green-energy future, the threatened desert tortoise is losing ground to Big Solar. The Gemini Project, an 11-square-mile solar energy array to be constructed on federal land n…

renonr.com

The land earmarked for the Gemini project is part of a migration area for the reptiles. Hundreds of them winter in burrows at the site. Biologists note that migration is essential for the species to prevent inbreeding, which can lead to species decline.

Emmerich, of Basin and Range Watch, said the Gemini site is near other solar project areas, transmission lines and highways that together will be a barrier to tortoise migration. He said clearing the land for the project will doom a significant number of the reptiles and disrupt the habitats of other plant and animal species.

Arevia Power’s initial management plan for the project anticipated that about 215 adult tortoises and about 900 juveniles would be at risk of being killed during construction. Under a relocation plan, as many tortoises as could be found would be removed from the area prior to site preparation and then returned after the solar panels are in place.

The largest solar energy project in the U.S. was approved in Nevada, despite critics

Conservationists say it will destroy thousands of acres of habitat critical to the survival of the threatened Mojave desert tortoise in Nevada.

www.rgj.com

"We don't think it will cause the extinction of the desert tortoise, but it is going to be a fairly big nail in the coffin of the species," he said in an interview Monday.

In addition to the tortoise, the site is home to two types of rare milkvetch plants, kit foxes, burrowing owls and wildflowers, said Laura Cunningham, a biologist with the Western Watersheds Project.

 

[mtmiller]

Like a tortoise. Here's a solar farm/facility in Nevada that was approved by the prior administration but concerned an ESA threatened tortoise.

The tortoise vs. the bulldozer

In Nevada’s race to a green-energy future, the threatened desert tortoise is losing ground to Big Solar. The Gemini Project, an 11-square-mile solar energy array to be constructed on federal land n…

renonr.com

The land earmarked for the Gemini project is part of a migration area for the reptiles. Hundreds of them winter in burrows at the site. Biologists note that migration is essential for the species to prevent inbreeding, which can lead to species decline.

Emmerich, of Basin and Range Watch, said the Gemini site is near other solar project areas, transmission lines and highways that together will be a barrier to tortoise migration. He said clearing the land for the project will doom a significant number of the reptiles and disrupt the habitats of other plant and animal species.

Arevia Power’s initial management plan for the project anticipated that about 215 adult tortoises and about 900 juveniles would be at risk of being killed during construction. Under a relocation plan, as many tortoises as could be found would be removed from the area prior to site preparation and then returned after the solar panels are in place.

The largest solar energy project in the U.S. was approved in Nevada, despite critics

Conservationists say it will destroy thousands of acres of habitat critical to the survival of the threatened Mojave desert tortoise in Nevada.

www.rgj.com

"We don't think it will cause the extinction of the desert tortoise, but it is going to be a fairly big nail in the coffin of the species," he said in an interview Monday.

In addition to the tortoise, the site is home to two types of rare milkvetch plants, kit foxes, burrowing owls and wildflowers, said Laura Cunningham, a biologist with the Western Watersheds Project.

If you want to did a little deeper than the Reno newspaper, you can read the BO.

https://eplanning.blm.gov/public_projects/nepa/100498/20008148/250009603/08ENVS00-2019-F-0125_and_I-0126__Gemini_Solar_Project_BO_Final.pdf