Accuracy and precision, a silly question that's driving me crazy

[SukiSuki]

I'm getting back into shooting and hunting after a 25 year hiatus, I've been pouring over and sucking up as much information as possible looking at guns, cartridges, ballistics, scopes and whatever else I can read. I've read everything I can spending hours a night over the last 3 to 4 months and there is one thing I haven't found an answer to and so I decided to ask even at the expense of sounding silly. When looking at rifles and how "accurate" they are they tend to refer to grouping in terms of MOA. I get the MOA angle but a tight group is a measure of precision not accuracy. A group that is <.5 MOA but 3 inches off the bulls-eye is precise not accurate. A group that is <.5 MOA and .5 off the bulls-eye is both precise and accurate ( I teach Physics and Advanced Physics so maybe I'm splitting hairs). I guess my question is; are shooters looking primarily at groups because they can adjust scopes to move them on target? Are they deliberately shooting away from the bulls-eye? Can someone please explain why a half inch 5 shot group 5 inches off the target is satisfactory accuracy?

 

[OREGONCODY]

As long as you have a decent optic, you can adjust your scope to to where the gun hits. As long as your rifle is precise, your scope can make it accurate.

 

[Gunner46]

Bro, you are WAYYY overthinking this. It doesn't matter where any group is on a target. It's easy to adjust to where you want that group to be. But, here's a simple tid-bit to save you $$$$$. Take 1 shot. Regardless of where it hit on the target...take the same sight picture you had for the 1st shot and then move your sights to zero in on where the bullet hit. You are now accurate and can then determine if your load is precise. You're Welcome.

 

[std7mag]

Alas, some people do interchange the wording.
You are correct in your definitions.

It is a rare day that i hit the bullseye at 100 yards. All my rifles are sighted in at 200 yards.
The only time i don't care where on the target i'm grouping is during load development while trying to find my powder charge.

 

[cahunter805]

When testing loads and shooting groups I don’t move my scope regardless of the POI- point of impact. I also like to use targets with all my bullseyes on the same plane. Once I’ve found my load I will adjust my scope to my desired sight in height and windage. Then I will start testing at longer ranges.
Also at longer ranges things like wind parallax and mirage can really move a group around.

 

[Walkathon]

Per the above comments- When you find a load that groups well, just adjust your optics to get the point of impact where you want it. The gun is now precise and accurate.

 

[std7mag]

Well, it's still precise...
Accurate would depend largely on the loose screw behind the trigger. Lol

 

[noharleyyet]

Accuracy is when the barrel and the scope are interpreting the physics to send the bullet to a desired point of impact. Precision is the sum of all mechanical tolerances facilitating a controlled explosion resulting in consistent propulsion...notwithstanding shooter connection and barrel housekeeping interference....and other countless anal variables.

 

[sbhooper]

Holy crap! Talk about overthinking things! As long as the scope puts your shots on paper in an accurate group, you can move that group to match your point of aim. Simple as that. No worry about precision, until you figure out if the load is worth the effort. If you have a good scope, moving poi is so easy, that a caveman can do it.

 

[Deleted member 16014]

Sort of an aside, but it's crazy how many hunters don't really understand how their scope works. Or their rifle for that matter.

 

[cahunter805]

Sort of an aside, but it's crazy how many hunters don't really understand how their scope works. Or their rifle for that matter.

Or bother to really test them for things like tracking, return to zero or cold bore accuracy.

 

[nrpate05]

What you are really looking for is consistency. As long as the rifle/scope combo is grouping well consistently, you can adjust your turrets to have your bullets land where you want them.

 

[np307]

Holy crap! Talk about overthinking things! As long as the scope puts your shots on paper in an accurate group, you can move that group to match your point of aim. Simple as that. No worry about precision, until you figure out if the load is worth the effort. If you have a good scope, moving poi is so easy, that a caveman can do it.

Had to quote for the hilarity of you reversing accuracy and precision in complaining that the OP is irritated by people conflating the two terms.

 

[Schaaf]

Sort of an aside, but it's crazy how many hunters don't really understand how their scope works. Or their rifle for that matter.

And hunters that get a ballistic turret on a scope that cost less than $200 and start lobbing lead at animals 600 yards away.

 

[Doublecluck]

The only thing that really matters is the statistical probability of the bullet impacting your target on the first shot.

 

[sbhooper]

Had to quote for the hilarity of you reversing accuracy and precision in complaining that the OP is irritated by people conflating the two terms.

Who the hell cares? Irrelevance at its finest. Good grief.

 

[3855WIN]

Not sure what precisely is the question about accuracy.

 

[std7mag]

As Quackillr mentioned, it's the consistancy of that first cold bore shot.

How many of you go to the range. Set up a target. Shoot 1 shot. Pack up & go home to do it again the following 2-4 days?

Regular shooters at my local 1,000 yard range (i was shooting 600 yards) thought i was nuts.
The Gunny in charge of the Marine Corps Shooting Team, just smiled & nodded.

 

[ImBillT]

There’s no such thing as a high level of accuracy until you first achieve a high level of precision. You tune the rifle and until they are precise enough, then the scope and shooter are used to achieve accuracy. Accuracy from a bench under good conditions is fairly simple to achieve with a good scope that adjusts properly. Accuracy under all circumstances requires quite a bit of practice and development of skill. Nonetheless, with an imprecise rifle and/or load, accuracy can be fairly difficult to achieve. The level of precision required obviously depends on the target and the range at which it will be engaged.

 

[ImBillT]

As Quackillr mentioned, it's the consistancy of that first cold bore shot.

How many of you go to the range. Set up a target. Shoot 1 shot. Pack up & go home to do it again the following 2-4 days?

Regular shooters at my local 1,000 yard range (i was shooting 600 yards) thought i was nuts.
The Gunny in charge of the Marine Corps Shooting Team, just smiled & nodded.

I frequently shoot two. I not only want to know where the first one goes, but where it goes in relation to the rest. The latest rifle doesn’t seem to care about the cold bore. The next time out to shot a five shot group, and there really wasn’t a change. The first target is at 100yds. The cold bore was low. The second target is at 200yds. I don’t remember which was the cold bore, but the one high and left was shot number four. I wish every gun I owned would shoot like that cold. I’ve had guns that took two shots to stop moving.