A Navy Veteran’s perspective on racism

[Bigjay73]

All lives matter
-Why are you saying all lives matter. Unpack it for yourself, what are you trying to convey specifically or achieve. Are you saying all lives matter, because you are concerned about your friends and/or family that are LEOS. Are you worried that the currently Mileu puts LEOs at risk? In your mind is the safety or LEOs mutually exclusive from the lives of black Americans? Do you need to pick one over the other? Are you saying it because black people or the discussion about inequity makes you uncomfortable and your trying to give yourself ammo to back away from the problem?

-If you really think All Lives Matter than under that umbrella don't you also agree that Black Lives matter, Latino lives matter, Native American lives matter, LEO lives matter, medical providers life matters. Assuming you aren't racist and actually think they all do, why not acknowledge that Black lives are currently not being shown to matter, that this is a problem, and that as part of your belief that all lives matter that black lives need attention.

For a long time I subscribed to that mantra. Not seeing or feeling racism, I felt that using the term BLM was dramatic and unnecessary. By saying all lives matter, my thought process was that I would stand shoulder to shoulder with any fellow humans regardless of skin color, religion, or sexual preference to protect them and their freedoms, it had nothing to do with standing up for police officers. After much thought and truly understanding that racism is alive and well, and a scourge to the nation, i now understand what BLM stands for and what their message is. I hope that most of the people who say "all lives matter" mean it in the same way I did.

 

[Bigjay73]

And y'all talking about maple syrup need to quit. I'm on a low carb diet for the last 2 weeks, and you're killing me with thoughts of a 6 high stack of pancakes with syrup oozing off the sides.

 

[Dougfirtree]

The flavor of real maple syrup is awesome. The relative thinness of real maple syrup similar to consistency of water is my issue after growing up with the fake yet thick syrup which stays on top of the pancake for more than 2 seconds. Real Maple water would be a more honest description of what I find sold here in the States as real maple syrup.

Yeah, it's definitely thinner, but shouldn't be watery; especially if it's kept cold. I'm starting to suspect that you westerners aren't getting the good stuff...

 

[Gr8bawana]

The flavor of real maple syrup is awesome. The relative thinness of real maple syrup similar to consistency of water is my issue after growing up with the fake yet thick syrup which stays on top of the pancake for more than 2 seconds. Real Maple water would be a more honest description of what I find sold here in the States as real maple syrup.

That is also one of the things we didn't like.

Yeah, it's definitely thinner, but shouldn't be watery; especially if it's kept cold. I'm starting to suspect that you westerners aren't getting the good stuff...

Why the heck would anyone want to put cold syrup on hot pancakes?

 

[VikingsGuy]

If I was to say, "Black lives need to matter just as much as white lives and when I look at the world I do not believe that is currently the case. We need to work to change this." would that cause confusion, dismay or cries of reverse racism? No one short of the KKK would disagree with the first 11 words and many would agree with the whole thing. No one would read this and say that I cared more about black lives than white lives.

But that is a mouth full, so I to shorten it to, "Black Lives Matter". No change in intent from the longer text above. And why not ALM? "All Lives Matters" misses my point that apparently some lives do not.

The most technically accurate shortening would have been "Black Lives Matter Too". But really, with all the problems with division we have in this country and hundreds of years of race-based discrimination, that is where people are going to criticize? That they are so unable to understand the issue that I have to add "Too" so their feelings aren't hurt? I don't buy it for one minute.

I believe that most people like the status quo on most topics. Status quo situation, status quo ideas, status quo beliefs. And most people will work really hard to find reasons not to change any of it, most of all their preconceived notions. So, I believe, that many of the objections raised by those denying there is a problem are just simply trivial dismissals used to prevent them from actually engaging the real issues at hand. The BLM vs ALM issue is a sham argument that has served the preservers of the status quo well. I am glad to see many on this forum see through it.

 

[Dougfirtree]

Am I racist if I:

• Think it's crazy that black people can use the "N" word freely, but if a white person does is completely abhorrent (I personally think no one should use it)
• Wonder where the equal outrage is for the high rates of black on black crime/murder (the GF murder was horrible, not disputing that)
• Am confused that I keep being asked to not see color, only to be reminded over and over again of one's color
• Think that "All" lives matter

Over the course of this thread I've probably typed a response 3-4 times only to delete it an move on with my day. You hear a lot about wanting "dialogue" or "coming to the table" or "being a part of the conversation", but we've seen that if someone's side of the conversation isn't perfectly worded to the letter they get blasted. The Drew Brees situation is a good example.

I want good things for all people. I don't feel like a racist person at all, but I do feel like I'm being lumped in as one. Rather than engaging, I'll probably just continue to teach my children to be kind to all and hope that we can make a small difference in the world.

Somewhere, and I can't find it, is an excellent interview with Dr. Cornel West about the N word and why it's not ok for white folks to say, potentially ok for black folks to say. It was something like this (apologies to the good Dr.):

That word used to "belong" to white people. It was their word and they used it and they used it so poorly and attached so much hatred and pain to that word, that the word became far more powerful than just a word. It has to be undone. The word now "belongs" to black people, it's theirs now and through use of the word, they will slowly carve away some of the horrible meaning from it and make it back into 'just a word.'

That may sound confusing to some, especially if they're explaining to a child, but I talked about this last year, with my (then) 9 year old and that answer seemed to make sense to him, as it did to me when I heard it.

And, I'll also add my thoughts to the question of not seeing color. I guarantee you, the people protesting right now DO want you to see color. That's kind of the point behind BLM. They want you to recognize the different experience that goes along with the different color and really address that. Colorblind is not the goal. A just society that includes lots of different groups is the goal.

 

[Shangobango]

Interesting aside on the riots, I support peaceful protests but not violence, etc. etc.

Kwame Ture (Stokely Carmichael) was at Selma and marched with MLK. He was fully indoctrinated and participated in peaceful protest... but after his experiences and watching his friends and mentors get murdered...

“Dr. King's policy was that nonviolence would achieve the gains for black people in the United States. His major assumption was that if you are nonviolent, if you suffer, your opponent will see your suffering and will be moved to change his heart. That's very good. He only made one fallacious assumption: In order for nonviolence to work, your opponent must have a conscience. The United States has none.”

Something to think on.

Based on the fact that the United States is made up of the people who are it’s citizens I do not agree with the contention that the United States has no conscience. It is my view that protestors should be celebrated while looters and rioters should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

 

[Sytes]

The word... Depending context, it's a word I rarely use.

Anyone recall Laurie Sheck - last year? The incident that placed her career and prompts, to this day - death threats due to the use of that word that shall not be used regardless intent? I searched for an article to link about Sheck and this dropped on my Google lap. One written that is actually specific to this topic, not of discrimination in the outdoors, but you get the idea...

It's a great read and I typically choose not to read The Atlantic.

The Idea That Whites Can’t Refer to the N-Word

It’s long been accepted that the slur shouldn’t be used by white people to refer to black people. What about referring to the word itself?

www.theatlantic.com

However, since the 1990s this rule has undergone mission creep, under which whites are not only not supposed to level the word as a slur, but are also not supposed to even refer to it. That idea has been entrenched for long enough now that it is coming to feel normal, but then normal is not always normal. It borders, as I suggested above, on taboo.

If I were angry with Sheck for uttering the word in a sympathetic and sensitive discussion, that would make me seem, in being so hypersensitive to injury so abstract, inferior indeed. Furthermore, if nonblacks embrace this hypersensitivity as a way of showing that they are good people, they make me feel exploited.

But I am not their, well, you know, either.

I find Black Entertainment Television racist in it's own right...

I find Black Lives Matter, culturally tribal in it's intent. All Lives Matter would have a larger surface of support. However, I don't believe it is illegal... I just disagree with the intent behind the use of one race matters.

 

[406dn]

And y'all talking about maple syrup need to quit. I'm on a low carb diet for the last 2 weeks, and you're killing me with thoughts of a 6 high stack of pancakes with syrup oozing off the sides.

Just slather on enough butter to compensate.

 

[azelkhntr]

Sticks and stones will break my bones but words will never hurt me.

 

[Tiredofthebickering]

Sticks and stones will break my bones but words will never hurt me.

Bullsnot. I heard it plenty as a kid too. But there are more than few people in therapy because of the words hurled at them as children by their parents that prove this isn't true. It was a silly playground taunt that needs to die.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Based on the fact that the United States is made up of the people who are it’s citizens I do not agree with the contention that the United States has no conscience. It is my view that protestors should be celebrated while looters and rioters should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

For me that quote is a reflection on the length of the struggle.
Some may see this new movement, others have struggled there entire lives and buried a lot friends and leaders...

Hunter harassment is illegal, yet PETA et. al still do it.
Obviously we all advocate taking the high road with these individuals.

but say animal rights activists murdered Randy, Rinella, Jim shockey, etc... and say those people were never charged with a crime... or even identified.

How would you respond. How would it influence your thinking.

If some HTers decided to burn down PETA headquarters and you heard some non-hunter friends of yours say... well it's sad that Randy died but I mean you shouldn't protest because some dudes burned down PETA.

I'm not condoning violence, but at the same time I'm not going to let the understandable frustration of some to invalidate an entire movement.

 

[TOGIE]

I find Black Lives Matter, culturally tribal in it's intent. All Lives Matter would have a larger surface of support. However, I don't believe it is illegal... I just disagree with the intent behind the use of one race matters.

which i believe many of the passionate folks behind BLM would adamantly agree with, that no, not one single race matters

to them, saying "no, all lives matter" in response to saying "black lives matter" is to ignore and sweep under the rug that from this country's inception to the present, black lives have not always mattered as much and at times have fully and completely not mattered at all.

we've come along way, but we're not there yet as far as i'm concerned

i think the BLM movement has a bit of marketing problem with that issue of appearance where "only one race matters" - we all know that's not their intent though. and we shouldn't act like we don't know that's not their intent

but really, is it a marketing problem? or is it a me problem? that's what i've been thinking more about

 

[LopeHunter]

(partial quote)

-If you really think All Lives Matter than under that umbrella don't you also agree that Black Lives matter, Latino lives matter, Native American lives matter, LEO lives matter, medical providers life matters. Assuming you aren't racist and actually think they all do, why not acknowledge that Black lives are currently not being shown to matter, that this is a problem, and that as part of your belief that all lives matter that black lives need attention.

Is BLM actively working to raise the tide for others that have DNA which creates hurdles as navigate though life? I think of Native Americans. Hispanics. Various Asians and Near East Asians. All these groups have had and have hurdles based on DNA. I suppose every group can organize separately to raise awareness mostly for itself though that fractional approach will drag out the time for other groups to be heard.

As an example, today is a day (Juneteenth, 6/19) which BLM's recent activities have shined a spotlight on. Some companies and governments are making today a paid holiday. Perhaps several additional holidays are warranted to allow recognition for the hurdles faced by various races or an effort will arise for a unified National Day of Reconciliation holiday. Why a unified holiday? We have a single Veterans Day though have fought multiple wars, for example, and we use that designated day to pause and specifically honor veterans. Similar with Memorial Day being shared.

 

[Sytes]

Thanks for the quality response, Togie.

The intent behind debating the person versus the topic creates a huge rift with some here that cannot manage themselves appropriately.

Your comment and it's presentation, while I may a disagree, holds a value that enables people to give fair consideration.

Cheers for your post.

 

[Shangobango]

For me that quote is a reflection on the length of the struggle.
Some may see this new movement, others have struggled there entire lives and buried a lot friends and leaders...

Hunter harassment is illegal, yet PETA et. al still do it.
Obviously we all advocate taking the high road with these individuals.

but say animal rights activists murdered Randy, Rinella, Jim shockey, etc... and say those people were never charged with a crime... or even identified.

How would you respond. How would it influence your thinking.

If some HTers decided to burn down PETA headquarters and you heard some non-hunter friends of yours say... well it's sad that Randy died but I mean you shouldn't protest because some dudes burned down PETA.

I'm not condoning violence, but at the same time I'm not going to let the understandable frustration of some to invalidate an entire movement.

I see what you are saying.

I just want to be clear that I am all for protesting. 100%. That is one of our rights.

As to the question of what would I do if animal rights activists murdered some hunters: I certainly wouldn’t go out and start rioting and looting. If would want to make sure that the authorities did their job of holding the murderers accountable though, and if I thought peacefully protesting would help accomplish that I may would do that.

Sure the looting a rioting gets attention, but what kind of attention?

I can only speak for myself, but the looters and rioters don’t make me any more concerned with the plight of minorities in this country than I would be if they were protesting instead of looting and vandalizing.

Each of my friends that are minorities that I have had a chance to discuss all this with over the last couple of weeks share the same opinion that I do. They also worry that the looting and such will turn some people away that would have otherwise joined the discussion in a meaningful manner. They see it as people using the situation as an excuse to act a fool.

Granted this is a small sample size of 8 or 9 people but I still think it is telling.

 

[Sytes]

but really, is it a marketing problem? or is

I'll also share, this is not a race issue, imo. This is a concern about a very select minor few officers who either fail to understand the significance of less lethal uses of force and/or a select few who are racist. We have over a million sworn law enforcement people ready to give our lives in the protection of our laws. To protect our innocent from the criminals.
Training that is beat over and over into us holding someone on their belly handcuffed needs to be done within a reasonable amount of time due to minimizing the effects of asphyxiation.

The rarity of these situations is proof within the mass amount of arrest s and detentions made every single day!

 

[azelkhntr]

Bullsnot. I heard it plenty as a kid too. But there are more than few people in therapy because of the words hurled at them as children by their parents that prove this isn't true. It was a silly playground taunt that needs to die.

It wasn’t a taunt at all. It’s a nursery rhyme for children to memorize and have fun singing so they hopefully didn’t grow up as thin skinned milquesops. It needs to be brought back big time.

 

[VikingsGuy]

It wasn’t a taunt at all. It’s a nursery rhyme for children to memorize and have fun singing so they hopefully didn’t grow up as thin skinned milquesops. It needs to be brought back big time.

Or we could have a nursey rhyme that tells us to treat one another with respect. I am no snowflake, but seriously, can we move past the phony machoisms of the past yet?

 

[azelkhntr]

If BLM really cared about black lives or all lives wouldn’t they be burning down Planned Parenthood buildings? The PP Corp murdered and profited off of some 630,000.00 black babies last year alone.