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School/Mass shootings what's the answer?

Do you really believe that the security at the airports makes your flight any safer? The TSA and the "Patriot Act" haven't given you security only the illusion of security. And it came at a cost to your rights. Men with guns make flying safer in the form of Air Marshalls.
 
Gut Shot said:
How many gun owners have you seen on national media, foaming at the mouth and insulting the victims?
Click to expand...
I'm sure the ones who aren't dead are insulted when told they should be more scared of hammers. The typical response to these tragedies even insult my intelligence and I have enough guns that I'd have to go count them to know how many.
 
I don't have answers to offer, but would like to share another perspective. I work with juveniles who have found themselves on the wrong side of the law, and meet with every kid sent to our Department of Correction here in Indiana. Local news has reported that there have been 20 recent arrests of kids making social media threats. I would bet that at least some of those arrests are of kids who two weeks ago would have been ignored or treated less severally because it was likely they were making inappropriate jokes, or just making impulsive reactionary comments that likely would never be followed up on. As we know by participating in this online community, social media sometimes brings out the worst in even adults, let alone kids.

I am concerned that there will be a period of over-adjustment in response to the recent events and public hysteria. Kids who are being kids, and saying stupid things that kids sometimes say will be treated as public enemy number one. For the parents of teenage boys on this listserve, it could possibly be your kids who might be targeted. Other kids and parents will know which kids have access to guns, and may be paranoid. Be sure to have some serious discussions about what your kids are putting on social media, and that there is no room for jokes involving weapons.
 
That may insult them, but it is fact and logic. Not the mindless hate, and "means to an end" that we see non-stop from the left. Many more people are killed by handguns in America every year than by rifles of any kind. Why is there no push to limit handguns? Because 17 people weren't killed in one place, at one time, with one?
 
Gut Shot said:
Do you really believe that the security at the airports makes your flight any safer? The TSA and the "Patriot Act" haven't given you security only the illusion of security. And it came at a cost to your rights. Men with guns make flying safer in the form of Air Marshalls.
Click to expand...

I can't agree with that at all.

Air Marshalls have had little effect that I can VERY little effect.
 
It comes down to what should be done, what could be done, and what would make even the tiniest difference. In my opinion, there's literally NO WAY to do anything that will make a substantial difference at all with these incidents. How many magazine fed semi-autos are "out there" now? Meanwhile, rants and finger pointing of the extreme left vs. wing nut rights will continue.
 
Gut Shot said:
How many gun owners have you seen on national media, foaming at the mouth and insulting the victims?
Click to expand...

I've seen none of what you mention on national media, as I don't watch much of it. I've seen plenty of gun owners on my Facebook feed, now formally on my Facebook feed, foaming at the mouth, and not only insulting the victims, but insulting the intelligence of most anyone with an ounce of empathy and compassion for the loss of human life.

I'm over the BS morons who think a meme is somehow a thoughtful expression of ideas that will contribute to the discussion. They are lasts folks I want representing me in discussions on 2A issuers.

Reality is, if we as gun owners want to have the 2A rights a generation from now, we better pull our collective heads out of our asses and observe what is going on. Ignoring the spotlight events like this school shooting bring to the topic, the demographics and urbanization, gun ownership is going to shrink dramatically over the next twenty years. Don't believe me, go to an NRA national convention, a place with "people watching" opportunities that rival any Wal-Mart, and observe the age and whiteness of the audience compared to society as a whole.

Add issues like these high profile school shootings (and the huge media attention they justify) to the picture of aging/changing US demographics, and the 2A road ahead is going to be a lot rougher than the road traveled the last 100 years. Dumb ass memes on Facebook and similar false equivalencies that might get a laugh from the drinking buddies down at the bar is a short road to a lot more restriction on gun ownership.
 
Greenhorn said:
It comes down to what should be done, what could be done, and what would make even the tiniest difference. In my opinion, there's literally NO WAY to do anything that will make a substantial difference at all with these incidents. How many magazine fed semi-autos are "out there" now? Meanwhile, rants and finger pointing of the extreme left vs. wing nut rights will continue.
Click to expand...

Agreed.
 
Big Fin said:
I've seen none of what you mention on national media, as I don't watch much of it. I've seen plenty of gun owners on my Facebook feed, now formally on my Facebook feed, foaming at the mouth, and not only insulting the victims, but insulting the intelligence of most anyone with an ounce of empathy and compassion for the loss of human life.

I'm over the BS morons who think a meme is somehow a thoughtful expression of ideas that will contribute to the discussion. They are lasts folks I want representing me in discussions on 2A issuers.

Reality is, if we as gun owners want to have the 2A rights a generation from now, we better pull our collective heads out of our asses and observe what is going on. Ignoring the spotlight events like this school shooting bring to the topic, the demographics and urbanization, gun ownership is going to shrink dramatically over the next twenty years. Don't believe me, go to an NRA national convention, a place with "people watching" opportunities that rival any Wal-Mart, and observe the age and whiteness of the audience compared to society as a whole.

Add issues like these high profile school shootings (and the huge media attention they justify) to the picture of aging/changing US demographics, and the 2A road ahead is going to be a lot rougher than the road traveled the last 100 years. Dumb ass memes on Facebook and similar false equivalencies that might get a laugh from the drinking buddies down at the bar is a short road to a lot more restriction on gun ownership.
Click to expand...


Well said Randy.
 
Greenhorn said:
It comes down to what should be done, what could be done, and what would make even the tiniest difference. In my opinion, there's literally NO WAY to do anything that will make a substantial difference at all with these incidents. How many magazine fed semi-autos are "out there" now? Meanwhile, rants and finger pointing of the extreme left vs. wing nut rights will continue.
Click to expand...

A couple of things we could do. I believe the NICS system is flawed and should be torn down and completely redone.

Also the shooter had been contacted how many times by law enforcement? Last number I heard was 36 or 39? I'm all for administrative punishment for kids being kids crap that most of us did as teenagers, but after the first few times that law enforcement had to deal with him he should have been in front of a judge.
 
Big Fin, thanks for saying something - I'm curious, what are the age demographics you see at the NRA conventions?
 
Big Fin said:
I've seen none of what you mention on national media, as I don't watch much of it. I've seen plenty of gun owners on my Facebook feed, now formally on my Facebook feed, foaming at the mouth, and not only insulting the victims, but insulting the intelligence of most anyone with an ounce of empathy and compassion for the loss of human life.

I'm over the BS morons who think a meme is somehow a thoughtful expression of ideas that will contribute to the discussion. They are lasts folks I want representing me in discussions on 2A issuers.

Reality is, if we as gun owners want to have the 2A rights a generation from now, we better pull our collective heads out of our asses and observe what is going on. Ignoring the spotlight events like this school shooting bring to the topic, the demographics and urbanization, gun ownership is going to shrink dramatically over the next twenty years. Don't believe me, go to an NRA national convention, a place with "people watching" opportunities that rival any Wal-Mart, and observe the age and whiteness of the audience compared to society as a whole.

Add issues like these high profile school shootings (and the huge media attention they justify) to the picture of aging/changing US demographics, and the 2A road ahead is going to be a lot rougher than the road traveled the last 100 years. Dumb ass memes on Facebook and similar false equivalencies that might get a laugh from the drinking buddies down at the bar is a short road to a lot more restriction on gun ownership.
Click to expand...

Fin nailed it.
 
VikingsGuy said:
Well in that case, I guess we should stop bothering licensing pilots then too.
Click to expand...

No, the licensing guarantees that the pilot knows how to drive the aircraft. It doesn't ensure that they won't crash. The equivalent in the shooting world would be getting a license for a rifle because you could hit a target at 100yds. It wouldn't, and couldn't, guarantee that you wouldn't use that rifle to do bad things.

And we have firearms licenses here in Illinois. Have you seen what our murder rate is?
 
I have a question for all of you saying we must not let this tragedy lead to any gun legislation. How many lives per year are acceptable to you in the name of our gun rights?
Are you willing to include your children or other loved ones in whatever number you feel is OK? Doing nothing is not the answer. Banning guns is not the answer.
Even just closing the "gunshow loophole" would make a difference. We voters here in NV passed a law requiring background checks at gunshows, but our Republican governor Sandoval has decided not to enforce it.
So much for the will of the people.
 
Big Fin said:
<snip> Don't believe me, go to an NRA national convention, a place with "people watching" opportunities that rival any Wal-Mart, and observe the age and whiteness of the audience compared to society as a whole.<snip>
Click to expand...

Any idea what the percentage of the crowd is the outliers? Now real people watching comes for the OC crowd.

Not sure if it's still accurate, not an NRA member so I can't testify to it, but the NRA doesn't keep statistics on race in their membership.

Ironically, I notice the age and whiteness when I attend CPW meetings too.
 
Gr8bawana said:
I have a question for all of you saying we must not let this tragedy lead to any gun legislation. How many lives per year are acceptable to you in the name of our gun rights?
Are you willing to include your children or other loved ones in whatever number you feel is OK? Doing nothing is not the answer. Banning guns is not the answer.
Even just closing the "gunshow loophole" would make a difference. We voters here in NV passed a law requiring background checks at gunshows, but our Republican governor Sandoval has decided not to enforce it.
So much for the will of the people.
Click to expand...

You will need to enlighten me on what the "gunshow loophole" is. NICS are required in every state whether you are at a gunshow or not.
 
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