The Devil's Lettuce

[NR_Hunter]

Personally, the all day every day weed smokers are annoying people. The people that always need to crack a beer for literally everything are annoying too.

But for anyone to try and pretend alcohol isn’t the worse of the two in terms of human health and costs to society is a fudd at best and fascist at worst.

Like, this should be plainly obvious for anyone with an ounce of real world experience. I can’t believe how long this thread has gotten.

 

[WildWill]

Personally, the all day every day weed smokers are annoying people. The people that always need to crack a beer for literally everything are annoying too.

But for anyone to try and pretend alcohol isn’t the worse of the two in terms of human health and costs to society is a fudd at best and fascist at worst.

Like, this should be plainly obvious for anyone with an ounce of real world experience. I can’t believe how long this thread has gotten.

 

[The Hedgehog]

The stigma of weed or pot-smoking is strong with some folks and it's really bizarre. Case in point, a man near and dear to me who smoked camel no-filters, 2+ packs a day from the 1960s to late 90s. Then, while dying of pancreatic/lung cancer in 2014 there was zero chance he'd smoke a joint to ease any pain associated with the treatments.. ZERO chance of him smoking weed, ever. His father and brother essentially drank themselves to death. Go figure.

 

[cgasner1]

I’m glad you guys don’t put this much effort into your tag applications

 

[Dubz337]

I’m glad you guys don’t put this much effort into your tag applications

Tag applications? What are those? This is a weed and anti-weed forum now.

 

[Tiredofthebickering]

So been used since 2800 BCE according to what you linked, but it’s not been researched in all that time until it became legalized in some states the past few years? Really?

And used in open or secret isn’t that much of a difference. Scientists have extensively researched both weed and alcohol, and shown the effects they both have on the brain. People use hard drugs in secret based on what you’re saying, pretty easy to see the negative outcomes with those.

Never heard of anyone smoking a joint and then beating their wife, or getting into a bar fight, etc. are you really going to sit there and say alcohol doesn’t contribute in those events? We’ve had LEOs in this very thread say the same thing.

Didn't say that, ever.

Didn't say that, ever.

@AI, show me a strawman made of weed . . . .

 

[Dubz337]

Didn't say that, ever.

Didn't say that, ever.

@AI, show me a strawman made of weed . . . .

Then what are you saying? From my understanding, you're saying weed hasn't been researched enough/around long enough/legal long enough to know if it has more negatives than alcohol, which is laughable.

 

[Gus Chiggins]

@AI, show me a strawman made of weed . . . .

AI response: "I am sorry, but someone already smoked it. The closest thing is this gif from a Harold and Kumar movie

 

[Tiredofthebickering]

Then what are you saying? From my understanding, you're saying weed hasn't been researched enough/around long enough/legal long enough to know if it has more negatives than alcohol, which is laughable.

It isn't like marijuana use only started when it started being legalized. Its been used for just as long as alcohol, had studies done on it just as long as alcohol, and been available to the public, legal or not, just as long as alcohol. I think we have a pretty good idea on the differences of the effects on a person that alcohol and marijuana have, and which has the propensity to cause the more negative interactions.

I said this point was potentially false. Then I provided reasonable sources to indicate that it was false. I then said it's irrelevant to the larger point of my original post you referenced.

My original points were basically:

• A worse thing does not make your thing harmless.
• When people have to hide their habits they are probably also hiding their habit associated douchiness to a degree higher than those not forced to hide their habit. And clearly, a certain percentage of any group partaking in any particular habit are terrible, annoying people.
• Alcohol, tobacco, marijuana, vapes, etc. are a net negative on society and we'd be better off without them.
• The law can't accomplish the point above, so take the law out of it.
• To the above point, let people do their thing. But there's no reason you need to be able to do it in public.

 

[cgasner1]

Tag applications? What are those? This is a weed and anti-weed forum now.

I’m starting to understand how so many of these guys see all the 350” elk all over

 

[Flatbrimmer]

refer to post 57 smart alec

What penalty is looming? Going to get banned? Socially ostracized by strangers on the internet?

I drank an IPA and smoked a joint last night while chewing Copenhagen..... Arrest me, HuntTalk

This has essentially become the age old "Stoner vs Drunk" argument everyone has heard two friends bicker about for hours in a garage. It's not a productive conversation anymore. And to think this all started out because of some fly fishing nerds. Good grief.

 

[Dubz337]

I said this point was potentially false. Then I provided reasonable sources to indicate that it was false. I then said it's irrelevant to the larger point of my original post you referenced. So it irrelevant unless it backs up your claim. Search first use of alcohol or first use of cannabis and you'll get hundred of different answers. Probably because historical records aren't very reliable from the stone ages.

My original points were basically:

• A worse thing does not make your thing harmless. Never claimed it was harmless. I said it doesn't have as many negative affects as alcohol. This is proven. You keep saying strawman to this when that was never the point of the post.
• When people have to hide their habits they are probably also hiding their habit associated douchiness to a degree higher than those not forced to hide their habit. And clearly, a certain percentage of any group partaking in any particular habit are terrible, annoying people. This is a personal theory you're trying to pass off as fact.
• Alcohol, tobacco, marijuana, vapes, etc. are a net negative on society and we'd be better off without them. Personal belief you're trying to pass off as fact.
• The law can't accomplish the point above, so take the law out of it. Substances that can be abused should be regulated not outlawed, yes.
• To the above point, let people do their thing. But there's no reason you need to be able to do it in public. So no more bars, no more nightclubs, no more smoking cigarettes in public, no more having a beer by a campfire? Does this seem like a good solution to you? Or is it just the devil weed that must be hidden away like a shameful act?

 

[TOGIE]

hard to say i've come across a thread on HT that was as easy to ignore after the first page.

definitely one of the worst threads ever. -4 stars.

 

[noharleyyet]

hard to say i've come across a thread on HT that was as easy to ignore after the first page.

definitely one of the worst threads ever. -4 stars.

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[Visiting Hunter]

What’s really funny is we used to sell smack and blow mixes as medicine in the US, but somehow that’s forgotten. Look at the Sacklers documentary on Netflix (Painkiller); it’s like we forget anything can be abused.

As a society, we would be better off if we never knew about the mind-altering properties, but since the beginning of time, we have been looking for medications. Well, some drugs are medically helpful, and undoubtedly harmful as well when abused. Alcohol has been traced back to ancient times as well. Booze also had its years of prohibition as well... So that just tells me we may as well legalize and tax them all. Even if it goes against what we know... if we taxed the shit out them they would still sell...There will always be some sort of desire, I guess. But if sex and drugs were legal trades, it would likely solve a lot of the human trafficking and “drug wars.” If anyone hasn’t noticed, drugs won. And now sex is... Tax it and figure out how to use it wisely.

Prohibitions on Marijuana started around the 1900s was "banned" in 1937... you needed a license to grow it at this point... not scheduled until 1970.

cocaine 1914... yet coca cola wasn't "coke" free untill 1929. Not scheduled until 1970.

Alcohol was banned from 1920-1933

 

[Dubz337]

hard to say i've come across a thread on HT that was as easy to ignore after the first page.

definitely one of the worst threads ever. -4 stars.

 

[Tiredofthebickering]

@Dubz337

Keep in mind that my first couple of posts were not in reply to you or directed at you specifically. I never stated in my post that the things I was saying were facts. I was clearly stating my opinions. Nevertheless . . .

• My sources were academic, yours were not. Take your choice as it ultimately doesn't matter to me because my OPINIONS are in no way based on, or impacted by, which substance has been used longest. I dislike them both equally and feel that recreational use of both are a net negative on society.
• My point was poking fun at the common use of pointing to a worse thing to pass off a given thing as relatively harmless comparatively that crops up in many arguments. It appears to crop up here too. Nothing more, nothing else.
• Yes, a personal theory never stated as otherwise. Actually originally posted as a question only answerable in the future. Though I am stating as fact that all groups contain terrible people.
• Yes, a personal theory never stated as otherwise.
• Yay, agreement.
• Generally correct. Though I'd admit that secluded campfires are not exactly "public" as I'm sure you recognize. I've been pretty clear from the get go that my PERSONAL BELIEF is that society as a whole would be better without any of those things. I've not come after weed in particular at any point, though I did refer to regular users as often annoying and willing to die on the hill of convincing others to agree with them, regardless of the actual argument or indifference presented.

 

[Dubz337]

@Dubz337

Keep in mind that my first couple of posts were not in reply to you or directed at you specifically. I never stated in my post that the things I was saying were facts. I was clearly stating my opinions. Nevertheless . . .

• My sources were academic, yours were not. Take your choice as it ultimately doesn't matter to me because my OPINIONS are in no way based on, or impacted by, which substance has been used longest. I dislike them both equally and feel that recreational use of both are a net negative on society.
• My point was poking fun at the common use of pointing to a worse thing to pass off a given thing as relatively harmless comparatively that crops up in many arguments. It appears to crop up here too. Nothing more, nothing else.
• Yes, a personal theory never stated as otherwise. Actually originally posted as a question only answerable in the future. Though I am stating as fact that all groups contain terrible people.
• Yes, a personal theory never stated as otherwise.
• Yay, agreement.
• Generally correct. Though I'd admit that secluded campfires are not exactly "public" as I'm sure you recognize. I've been pretty clear from the get go that my PERSONAL BELIEF is that society as a whole would be better without any of those things. I've not come after weed in particular at any point, though I did refer to regular users as often annoying and willing to die on the hill of convincing others to agree with them, regardless of the actual argument or indifference presented.

Fair enough. I mean, the only point I was trying to make is that you can find many different academic resources which will contradict the academic resource you used, it’s hard to pin down dates on stuff that happened before recorded history

I am of the belief that cannabis in some forms, and depending on the age of the user of course, has no real demonstrative negative effects, and a lot of the things thrown out against it come from old disproven ideas, indoctrinations, and people’s personal beliefs and anecdotes about it. And that there is far more qualified data that shows the harm of something widely accepted and used, which is alcohol.

I agree, there are terrible people who use weed, just like there are terrible people who use alcohol, or cigarettes, or keyboard cleaner. The thing I’m wondering is, does weed have a hand in making them terrible, as alcohol has proven to do? Like I said, I haven’t heard one story yet where weed was a driving factor in domestic violence, or assault, or even murder. Alcohol has played a role in all those so many times it’s regularly considered as a factor in legal punishment of such acts.

I’m not trying to convince anybody here, and it’s very clear that some people just have stigmas that will not be changed no matter what happens. Been cool to start a thread that’s gotten so big, but the last ten pages plus have just seemed like a merry go round of the same things being argued about.

 

[Derek44]

hard to say i've come across a thread on HT that was as easy to ignore after the first page.

definitely one of the worst threads ever. -4 stars.

No harm intended, but here you are responding on page 22

That doesn’t seem to be ignored. Hahaha

 

[Nick87]

That actually works both ways...if you've ever accidentally taken a swig from your teenage son's smokeless spit cup.

I've drank my own spit cup before not pleasant. Even worse was coming in from a hot day outside as a kid and drinking the pop can your old man put his cigarette butts in. Son of a bitch!