bigeasygator
New member
It's sickening. To think the voice of this group of people is that much louder than our voice is what upsets me the most.
MT FWP Commission closes some wolf areas!
- Thread starter Big Fin
- Start date
It's sickening. To think the voice of this group of people is that much louder than our voice is what upsets me the most.
RobG
Well-known member
ultramag
New member
Thanks for clearing that up. I cant believe that they are micro managing these units like that. Its hard enough to try to get wolves in management status and if this trend continues it will be absolutely impossible.
bigeasygator
New member
Actually, I just read the comments...there are actually some sane, rational people in that discussion. You should go read the comments on the NYT's articles if you really want to get fired up!
Harrumph.
I had the same reaction. My favorites are those that say, "you should only kill for food". 'Twould love to turn a few rats loose in their abode. I bet they become savage hunters or trappers in a very short time...
jryoung
Well-known member
Sportsman need to be more organized, calm, cool and collected than ever. Level headed, non-hyperbolic arguments need to be communicated instead of the "kill'em all, SSS, non-native, exterminate'em" drivel that shows up so often.
We're fighting a battle against disconnected people who have anthropomorphized an apex predator. It is a very tough battle where the message must not get sidetracked.
See the republican parties failures this past election with letting people like Todd Akin and Michelle Bachman have a turn at the microphone.
fowladdict
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2005
- Messages
- 2,543
Here is what I've seen....
ACTION ALERT
If you haven’t heard yet, on Monday, Governor Brian Schweitzer’s Commission over Fish Wildlife and Parks closed wolf harvest in areas just North of Yellowstone National Park. Here is one story on Monday’s decision:
...http://www.greatfallstribune.com/vi...tana-shuts-down-wolf-hunting-near-Yellowstone
This decision sets a terrible precedent. Sportsmen and Livestock Producers have every right to be frustrated by this decision. The Governor needs to hear from hundreds of Montanans that they strongly oppose the decision to close these hunts and any restrictions on needed wolf harvest and the way the closure of the hunts was handled.
TAKE ACTION TODAY: Call Governor Brian Schweitzer today and tell him you don’t support the closure of the wolf hunts North of Yellowstone. Let’s send a strong message by getting hundreds of phone calls.
Governor’s office phone number: (406) 444-3111
Talking Points:
1) Sacrificing the recovery of wildlife populations in these areas and closure of these wolf hunts sets a terrible precedent.
2) Considering the devastation of elk and moose populations in the area, there is no biological reason why Governor Brian Schweitzer’s Commission over Fish Wildlife and Parks should have voted 4-1 to close the wolf harvest north of Yellowstone.
3) The head of Governor Schweitzer's Wildlife Commission, Bob Ream, has admitted that the decision to close the wolf hunt was political. This isn’t good enough for Montana’s wildlife. Ream said. "Is it political? Yeah, wolves are political." Source: http://missoulian.com/news/state-an...cle_0fb2e7c6-4309-11e2-9eab-001a4bcf887a.html
Please call Governor Brian Schweitzer today. Let him know that Montanans don’t support the closure or unnecessary restrictions on wolf harvest in Montana.
Governor’s office phone number: (406) 444-3111
Please forward this message to friends, family and work associates. Ask them to make a two-minute phone call today. Please keep all calls cordial while expressing your concern.
--
Ryan Benson
http://biggameforever.org/
[email protected] More
theat
Well-known member
It looks like the FWP Commission might have forgot to let the public know about their plan, let alone have an opinion on it.
Montana judge blocks wolf season closure near Yellowstone
http://www.bozemandailychronicle.com/news/wildlife/article_0de689e6-553f-11e2-bb2d-0019bb2963f4.html
Montana judge blocks wolf season closure near Yellowstone
http://www.bozemandailychronicle.com/news/wildlife/article_0de689e6-553f-11e2-bb2d-0019bb2963f4.html
RobG
Well-known member
From the same site, here is the suit: http://www.bozemandailychronicle.com/news/wildlife/pdf_2bb76d44-5541-11e2-b68c-0019bb2963f4.html
the plaintiffs are CBU, BGF, MOGA, MSFW and Rep. Redfield....
At the meeting, which SFW and CBU (Kerry White) testified at if memory serves, I was pretty sure the commission said it had reserved the right to review the season at any time.
dan.kirkpatrick
Well-known member
collar,no collar,,,what a bunch of crap.shouldnt make a difference as long as us hunters work on controlling the wolf population.
BuzzH
Well-known member
You can always count on SFW/BGF/MOGA for doing the "right" thing...idiots.
They're just trying to "unite" hunters.
The commissioners are the ones that should be really flogged for giving SFW/BGF/MOGA the opportunity to look like the good guys in this whole mess. They just arent capable of seeing the big-picture and what the results of their actions can lead to.
Tough to know which groups should wear the bigger asshat in this situation.
They're just trying to "unite" hunters.
The commissioners are the ones that should be really flogged for giving SFW/BGF/MOGA the opportunity to look like the good guys in this whole mess. They just arent capable of seeing the big-picture and what the results of their actions can lead to.
Tough to know which groups should wear the bigger asshat in this situation.
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idnative1948
Well-known member
Fin, your first sentence. "I have not seen any biological basis." Ding, ding.
Just waiting on our IDFG. Everybody needs to keep an eye on their respective F&G websites regarding public comment as it is not always out there for everybody to see and sometimes in another part of our states which may may involve 2-3 hours of travel to get to the meetings..
Just waiting on our IDFG. Everybody needs to keep an eye on their respective F&G websites regarding public comment as it is not always out there for everybody to see and sometimes in another part of our states which may may involve 2-3 hours of travel to get to the meetings..
Point well made, BuzzH. We take the open meeting laws very seriously in MT. Due notice and public comment at public meetings are critical.
Spot on. I work in local govt and open meeting rules are there as a matter of procedure, transparency, and protocol. Meeting organizers are required to publish agenda (X# of days before meeting)and make minutes from previous meetings available to public. You are not allowed to take action on any items NOT in published agenda. Breech the rules, no matter what the topic, and you will be in trouble.
My grandma could have filed and received an injunction. +1 to Buzz, just like SFW to hop on for PR purposes. I trust those guys as far as I can throw them.
RobG
Well-known member
I attended the meeting. I can't remember where I heard about the meeting but I think it was in the paper or I was alerted by Gallatin Wildlife Association. It was part of a conference call that included all regional offices so it was quite accessible to the public. I also remember hearing that they had received a thousand or so comments... the opportunity was obviously there.
I think the closure is analogous to the Deckard's Flats area around Gardener where the Commish can close it down if it gets too out of hand. And again, I'm sure they said they had reserved the right to revisit the issue mid season.
I don't mean to be insulting to the folks here but the anti-wolf comments at the meeting were pretty much "kill them all" which isn't a productive approach at any level. The commissioners needed reasons to counter the fact that research and well-known animals were getting shot. They already knew that a lot of hunters want all wolves gone and that isn't a possible option, nor new or actionable information. Rational comments like Fin's were needed - hopefully they got some early on.
I was surprised the commissioners caved, but I'm also surprised at the outrage by the more progressive folks here. The amount of area closed is small and focused, it isn't fair chase to be shooting wolves accustomed to being watched by tourists, it won't appreciably affect the overall population, and nature itself has reduced the park wolf numbers considerably so reducing them further isn't going to help wildlife much. Get the wolves elsewhere to head off the crash there; Jellystone has run its course mostly...
Finally, comments at the meetings an hour before the decision are really just for show so submit them earlier. The smart groups that testify just want to make the evening news to make their members think they are getting their money worth (the rest of us just want to vent). This is a good opportunity for SFW etc to reach a wider audience, which is another reason to have measured, reasonable comments because nothing reaches a wider audience than a frothing-at-the-mouth dumb statement made in front of a camera!
BuzzH
Well-known member
RobG,
I just didnt see anything but a knee-jerk panic decision because of a newspaper article.
Why not just leave it alone, let the season run its course, and address it at a later date?
Montana worked hard on its wolf management plan, getting them off the list, and getting the hunting seasons established. If they were so concerned about a few radio-collared wolves, that should have been addressed a longggg time ago. Its not correct to let a commission of a few people to make the decision to close an area to wolf hunting. Its also funny how slow they are to react to a major snowstorm when the elk leaving the Park are taking an absolute ass-kickin'...
I also think this comment is perhaps the most ridiculous thing I've read in this entire thread:
it isn't fair chase to be shooting wolves accustomed to being watched by tourists
Really? Dude.....you sound like a wolf hippie. I'm not a kill all the wolves type of guy, never have been, but thats statement sounds like its right out of the wolf hippie play book.
If elk, deer, sheep, goats, bears, or wolves cross the park boundary...they're all fair game, radio collars or not.
I just didnt see anything but a knee-jerk panic decision because of a newspaper article.
Why not just leave it alone, let the season run its course, and address it at a later date?
Montana worked hard on its wolf management plan, getting them off the list, and getting the hunting seasons established. If they were so concerned about a few radio-collared wolves, that should have been addressed a longggg time ago. Its not correct to let a commission of a few people to make the decision to close an area to wolf hunting. Its also funny how slow they are to react to a major snowstorm when the elk leaving the Park are taking an absolute ass-kickin'...
I also think this comment is perhaps the most ridiculous thing I've read in this entire thread:
it isn't fair chase to be shooting wolves accustomed to being watched by tourists
Really? Dude.....you sound like a wolf hippie. I'm not a kill all the wolves type of guy, never have been, but thats statement sounds like its right out of the wolf hippie play book.
If elk, deer, sheep, goats, bears, or wolves cross the park boundary...they're all fair game, radio collars or not.
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RobG
Well-known member
Well I erased my initial response which was in kind. Let's just say we need to consider how we look to the 99.7% of the U.S. that isn't Montana if we want to continue hunting wolves or anything. These animals include famous wolves and research animals used to humans. How would you feel if there was a sudden change in the hunting regulations and we killed all the famous elk from around Mammoth?
I agree about the elk slaughter (in 2010 I presume) but bear in mind that they were under the order to reduce elk numbers even below what they are now.
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BuzzH
Well-known member
RobG,
I've hunted quite a bit near Yellowstone...and if elk, deer, sheep, goats, black bears, or wolves happen to live in a territory that over-laps a legal Montana hunting area...thats just the way it is.
Where do we draw a line where its acceptable to hunt wolves, for fear we might shoot one with a radio collar or one thats been viewed by a tourist?
Wolves occupy a pretty big range, and some travel a longgg way from the park boundary.
Its also fair to note that the famous wolf wasnt even shot in Montana...it was in Wyoming.
Also, your elk around Mammoth arguement is not the same thing. Montana didnt suddenly pass a law that allows wolves to be shot in Lamar Valley. We're talking about the closure of part of a legally defined hunting district in Montana.
I just didnt, and still dont, see the reason for the panic decision. It did way more harm to the validity of a wolf season that it ever will to help. We're seeing the fall-out right now. Hasty decisions over things like this are rarely the correct one.
I've hunted quite a bit near Yellowstone...and if elk, deer, sheep, goats, black bears, or wolves happen to live in a territory that over-laps a legal Montana hunting area...thats just the way it is.
Where do we draw a line where its acceptable to hunt wolves, for fear we might shoot one with a radio collar or one thats been viewed by a tourist?
Wolves occupy a pretty big range, and some travel a longgg way from the park boundary.
Its also fair to note that the famous wolf wasnt even shot in Montana...it was in Wyoming.
Also, your elk around Mammoth arguement is not the same thing. Montana didnt suddenly pass a law that allows wolves to be shot in Lamar Valley. We're talking about the closure of part of a legally defined hunting district in Montana.
I just didnt, and still dont, see the reason for the panic decision. It did way more harm to the validity of a wolf season that it ever will to help. We're seeing the fall-out right now. Hasty decisions over things like this are rarely the correct one.
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