quarterhorse
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- Nov 3, 2011
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- 137
If the right people get onto this they'll have buying points for our unborn children. I can see the application now - check the box for name to be determined at a later date.
Why Not???
- Thread starter mixedbag
- Start date
Gerald Martin
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- Jul 3, 2009
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- 8,348
My thoughts exactly! Of course any accumulated points for children not born within five years will be credited to the intended father's account.
I've got five now.... put me down for another dozen.
Course this might not be fair for some guys that are already snipped.
JohnCushman
Well-known member
My thoughts exactly! Of course any accumulated points for children not born within five years will be credited to the intended father's account.
I've got five now.... put me down for another dozen.
Not all of us are as virile as Gerald that could ACTUALLY make another dozen kids
ShootsManyBullets
Well-known member
I'm going to have my boys filling cow tags and slinging lead at antelope soon as they're old enough. They don't need trophy units. Youth hunts should be about opportunity, not points and trophy animals.
JohnCushman
Well-known member
What pisses me off is when you see these fathers on TV taking their kids out for their first deer hunts and making them hold out for a trophy. You sit there and watch the kid begging to shoot a doe or a spike buck, but the father is in the background saying no. Then they do the interviews with the kids and you see the pre rehearsed speeches from the kids about managing the farms and proper mature deer harvest and crap like that. Even my wife, who is a brand new hunter, just wants to shoot something, and is just as excited seeing a doe and will jump out of the truck and throw her binos up just like she's looking at a trophy buck. Now that she's pulled the trigger and missed a couple of deer, I think she's got her jitters out and will start actually connecting and keeps telling me to put her in for doe tags since they are easier to get. She just wants to shoot stuff and put meat in the freezer and put her hands on an animal that she did it herself with, trophy be damned.
WapitiBob
Well-known member
Years ago there was thread on another site and the discussion was youth hunts in NM. Those early youth hunts had 150 rifle tags the last week of Sept in unit 34. Having hunted the unit several times, I chimed in and said I thought they were a bad deal, shooting the genetics out of the heard so Johnny's dad could impress his beer buddies with the kids bull. I suggested making them cow tags but leaving the time period the same. The kids get full rut action, kill a cow, and they're hooked for life.
Needless to say it went over like a fart in church. I was ruining every kids elk hunt that would read my post and was told point blank, little johnny needed that 370 bull because he was the future of Elk hunting.
Needless to say it went over like a fart in church. I was ruining every kids elk hunt that would read my post and was told point blank, little johnny needed that 370 bull because he was the future of Elk hunting.
LopeHunter
Well-known member
It sounds like you feel entitled to an equal opportunity at those youth tags?
I see the word "entitlement" negatively thrown around about subjects that are possibly things that ever citizen should be equally entitled to. I view wildlife and public ground as such. I have conflicting options about whether or not youth should be allowed to buy points but I also have conflicting interest's pulling me both ways.
I'll say this to promote thought's not arguments-
It's funny how people's opinions of what is right usually happens to further their own agenda's.
I'm certainly not aiming this at you or singling you out as all of us are guilty of this in some way.
First, I am another voice supporting the elimination of bonus and preference point systems. Are inherently discriminatory to the young. And, I say that as an old guy with several hundred points that I have spent $1000s to build over the decades.
Second, I do not support any set aside of tags of high demand hunts based on being a certain age or career. For lower demand hunts, like cow elk in some states, then go ahead. Want to charge a reduced amount, then sure. Entitlement that you deserve a OIL-class tag because you are young or old or a veteran or an ER doctor or fireman or teacher or crossing guard or you gave 100 units of blood, etc etc. Thank you for all the noble and brave things you did. There will be no special treatment for tags or your income tax rate or the speed you are allowed to drive on the freeway or the price you pay for eggs at the grocery store.
Turn in a poacher and get a conviction though and that may deserve some consideration. Poaching is a problem. Be crucial as we convict a criminal and you get a similar tag. My 2 cents.
Marshian
Well-known member
As a Montana resident, I have no complaints with the current system and definitely do not dream to be able to accrue points until they are legal age. New hunters are more than happy, or should be IMO, to have an opportunity at any animal, and don't need to feed dads ego with a massive bull. Let them wait their turn like everyone else. And I do appreciate that the current system increases the chances for hunters who have waited a long time for a trophy yet still allows a chance, albeit much smaller, to anyone. I hope Montana doesn't change.
Zim
Well-known member
You should be very grateful they don't. You'd buy them for ten years only to have the state "change" their draw system and cheapen the points anyway!
In addition, as pointed out, kids don't care about trophy quality when learning. There are many other things they need to experience and learn, such as hunting techniques, field dressing, game care, ethics, etc. Besides that, there's plenty of youth entitlements already out there.
You guys are making this into a selfish Dad thread which I agree happens.I have to come from 2000 miles away to bring my son on a hunt;little expensive.Iwant him to have the best hunt possible to hook him into this type hunting.Not like a crowded otc Co tag is as good a hunt as a 5 pt limited entry.FYI,I'm applying my son by himself in Wy for a unit he should draw.I'll apply in another unit close by.So not all of us are self centered with our kids,and want to use them for our advantage.Its a big commitment to come from Pa to Wy,Co or Mt.It may be a bit different for someone under 10 hr drives away.But, I don't see him wanting to save all year to use what vacation he may get in his early 20s to drive 2 days if he has a bad crowded experience
My son also wont wait for a big bull in his hunt,and that matters little to me.The quality of the hunt does make adifference though for all of us or we would never buy a point in any state;kids aren't different.I hear guys complaining all the time about how many trucks were at their trailhead when they just drove maybe an hour to hunt there.If that gets you disgusted try 2 days each way to get there.Kids get discouraged a lot quicker then most of us
My son also wont wait for a big bull in his hunt,and that matters little to me.The quality of the hunt does make adifference though for all of us or we would never buy a point in any state;kids aren't different.I hear guys complaining all the time about how many trucks were at their trailhead when they just drove maybe an hour to hunt there.If that gets you disgusted try 2 days each way to get there.Kids get discouraged a lot quicker then most of us
hunt1up
Active member
It sure would be convenient if I could get some points for my 2 and 4 year old. Then in 12 years, we can group apply and the whole family get's a nice bull tag in AZ and WY, including me!
I'm all for getting kids into hunting. I'm taking my neighbor's 13 year old son deer hunting this weekend. BUT, having a 16 year old kid with a dozen preference points just doesn't seem wise. What if the kid doesn't want to be a hunter? What's a man to do with those points?
I'm all special youth season dates, for example. Here in IL, kids have a youth firearm deer season during early October. Unpressured deer, nicer weather. They're playing by the same rules but get those two benefits. I think it's great.
I'm all for getting kids into hunting. I'm taking my neighbor's 13 year old son deer hunting this weekend. BUT, having a 16 year old kid with a dozen preference points just doesn't seem wise. What if the kid doesn't want to be a hunter? What's a man to do with those points?
I'm all special youth season dates, for example. Here in IL, kids have a youth firearm deer season during early October. Unpressured deer, nicer weather. They're playing by the same rules but get those two benefits. I think it's great.
Flatland Crusoe
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- Oct 7, 2014
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- 572
The thing that bothers me is I think a lot of people here are resentful that a kid stole their deer/elk/etc or that they are sick of their dad bragging on their kid's kill and can't be happy for a new hunter. That argument coming from grown men has always seemed really low and short sighted and is #1 the reason why people complain or oppose youth seasons. I've seen the argument that youth seasons are why the deer numbers/genetics have gone way down from a lot of guys and nothing statistically I've seen ever comes close to any change that isn't a rounding error from youth harvests once you consider annual statewide harvests.
What you need to provide kids are hunts with lots of opportunities/access with as little restriction on what sex and antler size game they can shoot and low pressure and competition as possible. For antelope in Wyoming that means a good number of PP's where as a lot of trophy units density is low but trophy potential is high and that's exactly what you don't want your kids to be hunting.
Kids should get a fair crack at a good hunt early on, it will get plenty hard for them in a few years when 1000 activities are competing for their time outside of hunting and they move away to college or start working an have to figure out a whole new state from square 1.
What you need to provide kids are hunts with lots of opportunities/access with as little restriction on what sex and antler size game they can shoot and low pressure and competition as possible. For antelope in Wyoming that means a good number of PP's where as a lot of trophy units density is low but trophy potential is high and that's exactly what you don't want your kids to be hunting.
Kids should get a fair crack at a good hunt early on, it will get plenty hard for them in a few years when 1000 activities are competing for their time outside of hunting and they move away to college or start working an have to figure out a whole new state from square 1.
M
MN Public Hunter
Guest
I get where you are coming from, but lets be honest. If you want him to experience hunting then you need to let him see what it's REALLY like. Hunting the west as a NR is a crap shoot, that is what you really need to show him, not that look, I bought you 12 points and by the way, it's a one time thing because you will never get to hunt here again because this unit takes 10+ points.
Based on what you ware wanting to show your kid, why not just do a guide service on private land? Because if you think you need to give him the best unit for what ever reason based on points, it's about the same as a guided hunt I guess.
Heck, I live 12-14 hours from WY where I hunt and sure, I'm like you, I want the best hunt possible, but that means if I want a "special" unit I wait to hunt every 3-5 years. If your son really likes hunting he will have a good time no matter what unit you are in IMO.
Zim
Well-known member
mixedbag, There are plenty of opportunity hunts where your kid can have a great overall experience with an OTC or leftover permit, just not the trophy potential. In addition to all the youth entitlement tags you can apply for. On a side note, they had a low age limit in Wyoming back when they were cheap $8/year. I bought them for my three sons for 6 years I think it was, up until they started charging $100/year. I dumped those 18 sheep points. None of the three became hunters anyway. So I was glad I quit doing that.
Old fart tags or my baby,my baby tags??
How about they learn like the rest of the hunters do,biding our time until we do draw. Done that since 1969.
Discount price,totally. Free lic. under 18 ,sure. Cow & doe preference maybe.
See,I think a cow elk is a trophy every time. A BC bull may or may not ever be in your sights.Regardless of unit & state,and can be found in the most unlikely places.
NM youth tags are a bit my baby,extreme IMHO.
Buying points and riding your kids coatails is even more extreme,IMHO
How about they learn like the rest of the hunters do,biding our time until we do draw. Done that since 1969.
Discount price,totally. Free lic. under 18 ,sure. Cow & doe preference maybe.
See,I think a cow elk is a trophy every time. A BC bull may or may not ever be in your sights.Regardless of unit & state,and can be found in the most unlikely places.
NM youth tags are a bit my baby,extreme IMHO.
Buying points and riding your kids coatails is even more extreme,IMHO
gutshootem
Active member
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2014
- Messages
- 162
MB,
I asked a similar question last year and received some similar responses; however, my thread seemed a little more positive.
What I got out of it was Vermont allows you to buy points at an early age and AZ allows you to transfer, so although you wouldn't be able to hunt with your child, you'd be able to get him/her a tag.
Hope this helps.
I asked a similar question last year and received some similar responses; however, my thread seemed a little more positive.
What I got out of it was Vermont allows you to buy points at an early age and AZ allows you to transfer, so although you wouldn't be able to hunt with your child, you'd be able to get him/her a tag.
Hope this helps.
Topgun 30-06
Active member
Whatever happened to the good old days when us kids were just happy to go out with Dad hunting anything anywhere just to have a good time in the outdoors, regardless of whether we came home with anything but muddy boots?! Times they have changed and not for the better when I see so many parents thinking their kid has to hunt a trophy his first time out to be happy or he won't go again. Sad, very very sad!
I definitely don't like the idea. And I have a son less than 1 year old that could benefit immensely from it . If I could start buying him points, it would be only be people like him whose parents started buying him points as a baby that would be pulling primo tags in 20 years. Think about sheep tags. Anybody who was 25 years old and decided they'd like to start applying for sheep would be totally screwed and would have absolutely zero percent chance of drawing in a preference point system. Talk about taking away hunter opportunity. I just don't like it and my son's first, second, third and probably tenth big game hunt sure as hell isn't going to be in a 10 point unit.
quarterhorse
Member
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- Nov 3, 2011
- Messages
- 137
Should we also be able to "will" our un used points to our kids when we die? And to Johnny goes my 57 accumulated sheep points. Before long the IRS is going to recognize the value of points and start taxing them. Sorry for the rant. Random draws are simple and simple is better.
BuzzH
Well-known member
Not really a joking matter.
A few years ago, a bill was introduced to allow the transfer of preference points to next of kin here in Wyoming...soundly defeated, but it was heard in Committee. A committee where a few of the Legislators thought it had merit...because there was "value" associated with acquiring the points.
Another problem with point systems.
