How and where do we start? I'm in.
South East Montana - Custer National Forest
- Thread starter The Hedgehog
- Start date
How and where do we start? I'm in.
Today's hunter attitude of "if it's brown it's down because it's legal and I have tags" is a start.
BTW Not saying that's your way cowboy. Just sayin,,,,
It's a nice thought, but hunters will never self-regulate. And I'm not sure they should. It's the responsibility of the game agency to manage the wildlife, not the responsibility of hunters to leave tags unpunched because the agency won't manage.
Brian in Montana
Well-known member
Without love, where would you be now...
.
Agree BUT the snowball headed downhill about 2000 and it appears no way to stop it. So until we can get things changed with the agency do we keep punching tags just because it's legal until there is nothing left to kill?
I watched it happen in 5 elk units. Either sex killing for 6 years 2004-2009 fought it every year and couldn't stop it. 2 units have yet to recover, meanwhile guys were pissed when it ended because all they wanted to do was "kill my cow".
Last edited:
Phil Tuccillo
New member
I agree with this comment.
I've seen a lot of questions on this and other forums in regards to Eastern Montana this year. I'm staying out of there, hope no one gets shot as that seems like a real possibility this year judging by the amount of interest.
The rest of what's going on, on this thread is just a bunch of guys venting their frustrations about what's happening to the game populations in Montana the last who knows how many years. Randy just happened to inform the public about the supposed good hunting in SE MT at the wrong time and guys started bagging on him. I’ve got no problem with what Randy posted, but I’ll admit, I’m not happy with how things have changed in Montana. I was 15 years old in 2003 when I hunted Montana for the first time, I’ve hunted the state every year since. Even in that amount of time, I have seen a large downward slopping trend in most wildlife populations and the quality of the males of each specie.
Antelope used to be thick. I used to see good solid bucks all the time. It used to be that it would be harder to find a piece of ground that had no Antelope on it, then places that did. The last real good year was 2009. I don't want to blame the FWP for what's happened to the Antelope, but FWP seemed really slow to make any changes after the hard winters. Yeah I hear about the rebounding numbers, and have seen increases in places myself, but it’s not the way it was pre 2009. Just doesn't feel the same, don't see the same amount of quality. Why is it taking so long for an animal to rebound when it only takes 2 or 3 years for it to reach peak maturity?
Elk are still around, for now. A lot of guys thought the re-introduction of the wolves would be the end of good Elk hunting in Montana. It was not. But now the FWP is waging a war against the Elk, trying to bring em down to 90,000 or so. Not even the wolves would be that effective. As a kid who didn't know what the hell he was doing, I used to see some good bulls in the breaks. Now, I walk more country, see more new places and have more years under my belt, but I'm not seeing the size of the bulls I’d see when I was a kid walking around with just a pocket full of ammo, a deer tag, and a bottle of water. But I'm not much of an Elk hunter.
What’s happened to the Mule Deer in the last decade is a damn crime. Used to have days where I’d see close to 300 in one day, maybe more, and I spent most of my day walking. That’s not road hunting numbers. I remember seeing an actual herd of mulies once, there had to be more than 75 in the group. Saw 2 of the 5 biggest bucks I have ever seen in my entire life, in MT, including the biggest. That big one is what kept me going back for years. But I haven’t seen a buck close to that class for years now. I ate NR tag soup on Mule Deer in 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015 and finally killed one last season. He wasn’t all that big, but I was getting the feeling I may not go back for a while, so I wanted to punch a tag. Kind of like a last hoorah. Eastern Montana is a deer FACTORY, but its not rebounding like its potential would allow it to.
I hear stories of what the Eastern side was like 40 years ago, I have my own stories of what it was like just 14 years ago. It’s a shell of what it once was. Almost depressing how much it has changed. The guys going for the first time, or guys who have been going for a handful of years may think it’s great out there, but they don’t know how much better it CAN be. It’s even crazier to think, but it supposedly was even better before my time.
The FWP’s job is to do what’s best for the Wildlife, but I just don’t see that happening, at least not now. But I guess that’s what you get for hunting an opportunity state. I just wonder how long the opportunists will be satisfied with the current state of hunting?
Time to look for greener pastures.
The rest of what's going on, on this thread is just a bunch of guys venting their frustrations about what's happening to the game populations in Montana the last who knows how many years. Randy just happened to inform the public about the supposed good hunting in SE MT at the wrong time and guys started bagging on him. I’ve got no problem with what Randy posted, but I’ll admit, I’m not happy with how things have changed in Montana. I was 15 years old in 2003 when I hunted Montana for the first time, I’ve hunted the state every year since. Even in that amount of time, I have seen a large downward slopping trend in most wildlife populations and the quality of the males of each specie.
Antelope used to be thick. I used to see good solid bucks all the time. It used to be that it would be harder to find a piece of ground that had no Antelope on it, then places that did. The last real good year was 2009. I don't want to blame the FWP for what's happened to the Antelope, but FWP seemed really slow to make any changes after the hard winters. Yeah I hear about the rebounding numbers, and have seen increases in places myself, but it’s not the way it was pre 2009. Just doesn't feel the same, don't see the same amount of quality. Why is it taking so long for an animal to rebound when it only takes 2 or 3 years for it to reach peak maturity?
Elk are still around, for now. A lot of guys thought the re-introduction of the wolves would be the end of good Elk hunting in Montana. It was not. But now the FWP is waging a war against the Elk, trying to bring em down to 90,000 or so. Not even the wolves would be that effective. As a kid who didn't know what the hell he was doing, I used to see some good bulls in the breaks. Now, I walk more country, see more new places and have more years under my belt, but I'm not seeing the size of the bulls I’d see when I was a kid walking around with just a pocket full of ammo, a deer tag, and a bottle of water. But I'm not much of an Elk hunter.
What’s happened to the Mule Deer in the last decade is a damn crime. Used to have days where I’d see close to 300 in one day, maybe more, and I spent most of my day walking. That’s not road hunting numbers. I remember seeing an actual herd of mulies once, there had to be more than 75 in the group. Saw 2 of the 5 biggest bucks I have ever seen in my entire life, in MT, including the biggest. That big one is what kept me going back for years. But I haven’t seen a buck close to that class for years now. I ate NR tag soup on Mule Deer in 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015 and finally killed one last season. He wasn’t all that big, but I was getting the feeling I may not go back for a while, so I wanted to punch a tag. Kind of like a last hoorah. Eastern Montana is a deer FACTORY, but its not rebounding like its potential would allow it to.
I hear stories of what the Eastern side was like 40 years ago, I have my own stories of what it was like just 14 years ago. It’s a shell of what it once was. Almost depressing how much it has changed. The guys going for the first time, or guys who have been going for a handful of years may think it’s great out there, but they don’t know how much better it CAN be. It’s even crazier to think, but it supposedly was even better before my time.
The FWP’s job is to do what’s best for the Wildlife, but I just don’t see that happening, at least not now. But I guess that’s what you get for hunting an opportunity state. I just wonder how long the opportunists will be satisfied with the current state of hunting?
Time to look for greener pastures.
No offense taken TJ but between 2 sons and myself not using more doe/cow tags over the years than most people have drawn on this site it just isn't making a difference in the big picture.
I took Greenhorn's comment of us having a new G&F head along with [but it's going to take BIG changes.]
as an opportunity to organize and present some solutions. I would be more than willing to participate in that type of agenda. I have went to way too many public meetings in the past on such things as wolf reintroduction, shoulder seasons, elk management quotas, etc to name a few to think that a lone voice up at a mic. for 2 min. means squat diddly. Our G&F just don't listen - they are not reacting to situations in a timely manner. Call it politics, legislature or whatever but we need some "BIG changes" or my grandson won't have 1/10 the opportunities that I have had.
8andcounting
Well-known member
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Not to be a smart ars but all the yellow I have a onx chip . Tons of public
8andcounting
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2013
- Messages
- 3,298
If u can't find a ok muley in 410 then maybe it's time to fold up
Tradewind
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That's a lot to be mad abt... Cranky pants :hump:
antlerradar
Well-known member
The first thing that needs to happen get rid of the law of diminishing returns management philosophy that FWP is so fond of.
antlerradar
Well-known member
This should be a guiding principle of all wildlife departments.
ShootsManyBullets
Well-known member
Wow this is a depressing thread.
Yes, SE MT is a shell of what it once was and needs serious changes. No it's not Randy's fault that more people might go there, see it's not what they thought it was and drive home.
For reference I've hunted out there for 15 years and my dad hunted there since the late 80's so yeah it's depressing. I miss what it was before, and move it down on my hunt list now instead of making it a must do.
Most of the places we used to see lots of good bucks have very few deer, but we found new places with decent hunting and have a lot of fun out there. I guess there's lots of road hunters and some crowds, but it looks pretty good compared to some other states' general seasons. It's a gorgeous place with great people that I hope to be able to take my boys to some day to enjoy.
Anyway info flows way faster than it used to so get used to it. Greater efficiency on our part and more people trying to make money off the hunting industry will lead to shorter seasons and limited quotas or we'll just wipe the animals out. Pretty simple really. If you don't want people in your spots, don't tell anyone where you're hunting. It's a lesson we all learn the hard way.
Yes, SE MT is a shell of what it once was and needs serious changes. No it's not Randy's fault that more people might go there, see it's not what they thought it was and drive home.
For reference I've hunted out there for 15 years and my dad hunted there since the late 80's so yeah it's depressing. I miss what it was before, and move it down on my hunt list now instead of making it a must do.
Most of the places we used to see lots of good bucks have very few deer, but we found new places with decent hunting and have a lot of fun out there. I guess there's lots of road hunters and some crowds, but it looks pretty good compared to some other states' general seasons. It's a gorgeous place with great people that I hope to be able to take my boys to some day to enjoy.
Anyway info flows way faster than it used to so get used to it. Greater efficiency on our part and more people trying to make money off the hunting industry will lead to shorter seasons and limited quotas or we'll just wipe the animals out. Pretty simple really. If you don't want people in your spots, don't tell anyone where you're hunting. It's a lesson we all learn the hard way.
baz77
Active member
Add me to the list of guys who will be in SE montana this year with 2 buddies ....After 20+ bowhunts in the west (including 1 in custer) it will be a fun change of pace for us taking guns and it will also be my first gun hunt of any sort in in about 10 years.
Pressure is relative you guys would lose your minds hunting here in Ohio where you will tpyically hear 200+ shots on opening morning and have 5-10 trucks at every parking spot.
Pressure is relative you guys would lose your minds hunting here in Ohio where you will tpyically hear 200+ shots on opening morning and have 5-10 trucks at every parking spot.
antlerradar
Well-known member
I understand that the hunting pressure is not same in SE Montana as it is in the East. What you in the east need to understand is that SE Montana has no where near the deer densities as the places you hunt in the east. There is a lot of public land in SE Montana that has fewer than ten deer per square mile.
baz77
Active member
Maybe so but I know I saw more deer that one week in Eastern Montana than I'll see in 10 years hunting in Ohio. I was more referring to the guys saying they were staying out due to safety and such.
BigHornRam
Well-known member
BREAKING NEWS!!
USFWS just released 20 hungry grizzlies into Custer National Forest in SE Montana. Details have not been leaked yet. Stay tuned for more.
USFWS just released 20 hungry grizzlies into Custer National Forest in SE Montana. Details have not been leaked yet. Stay tuned for more.
Straight Arrow
Well-known member
Thanks, BHR, for more of your alternative truth and fake news. Likely you will follow with a far-fetched conclusion regarding the ESA, the USFWS, or USFS ... with a caveat blaming grizzlies for the national debt. We will stay tuned.
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