SB 388 Revising upland bird regs for Non Residents

[jejack26]

What is the problem? If only roosters are shot, increased hunting pressure would not substantially
impact the pheasant population.
If there is increased pressure, huns start flushing at 100 yards and sharptails learn to flush at 200 yards.
With increased pressure, hunting success on public land declines, as birds relocate to areas that are private,
or require sweat-equity.
Seems like the bill addresses a perceived human crowding problem, not a bird population problem.

According to the statistics, only 1 percent of non-residents hunt more than 28 days,
if there is a substantial crowding problem, why not address it instead of effecting only 1%?

What is the problem? If only roosters are shot, increased hunting pressure would not substantially
impact the pheasant population.
If there is increased pressure, huns start flushing at 100 yards and sharptails learn to flush at 200 yards.
With increased pressure, hunting success on public land declines, as birds relocate to areas that are private,
or require sweat-equity.
Seems like the bill addresses a perceived human crowding problem, not a bird population problem.

According to the statistics, only 1 percent of non-residents hunt more than 28 days,
if there is a substantial crowding problem, why not address it instead of effecting only 1%?

I don't know where you found the stat on %1 non resident resident length of stay.
Since we don't have any mandatory reporting I'm guessing any statistics you find is suspect.
There are areas where I believe this bill could alleviate some pressure. It's the same story, dwindling resource, increased demand.

 

[OntarioHunter]

Okay, I'm willing to throw out a sensible solution rather than just bellyache about the lack of logic behind this attempt. Here's what I suggest. The state can break down upland hunting on the East Side into three separate seasons for nonresidents AND residents. Hunters will buy one and only one license per year designated for only one of those seasons. I think that would greatly reduce the opening week onslaught when pressure is traditionally heaviest and birds are most uneducated. Say, season #1 runs from opening of Huns/sharpies through to first week (or two?) of pheasants. Season #2 from thence to Thanksgiving. Season #3 = remainder of traditional season. West Side hunters can buy licenses for full length upland season but only applicable to the West Side. Might require pre-season license purchases (particularly for East Side zones) but I'm okay with that.

 

[OntarioHunter]

There are many hunters from Minnesota, North Dakota, Wisconsin, Michigan and others. I've see plates from nearly every state at one time or another. The hunting has declined dramatically, but it is still better than where they are coming from.

Twenty years ago, there was much more CRP than presently. So, with fewer places to hunt, the crowding has become much more evident.

If I did not have memories going back so far, I'd skip it. It is a touchstone for each year. I have many wonderful memories. The quality of the hunting does not warrant the pressure it is getting, but I think it will take a decade or more for non residents to process that.

I'm sure there are many hunters from those states. But you can't tell me the increase in non-local resident hunters hasn't increased exponentially. That's what I'm seeing. Again, where do you live?

 

[mtmiller]

Don't get me wrong, I am not adverse to regulating non-resident hunters. But I am opposed to nonsense regulations dreamed up simply for appearances.

This regulation will have little impact on the chief management problem (loss of habitat) or much if any benefit for anyone, including uplands or resident hunters. It just does something ... anything. Shoot from the hip and call it a day.

You should share your thoughts with the Primary sponsor. He has a little experience on the subject.

 

[OntarioHunter]

You should share your thoughts with the Primary sponsor. He has a little experience on the subject.

Who might that be? Another poster on here reached out to the person who supposedly introduced the bill. That person claimed to know nothing about it.

I have quite a lot of experience too. Actually, probably much more experience every year and over a wider area than most Montana resident bird hunters or landowners. I'm at a loss to understand how anyone could make an informed decision based on data. Outside of the rare contact through weekend check station (and I generally avoid weekend hunting), I have never been asked for harvest report on upland birds. Not that I can remember anyway.

 

[406dn]

I'm sure there are many hunters from those states. But you can't tell me the increase in non-local resident hunters hasn't increased exponentially. That's what I'm seeing. Again, where do you live?

None of your business where I live.

I've hunted there a long time. There are more non resident hunters up there the first weekend than residents, if license plates mean anything.

You can use your reasoning ability from the up there phrase to make a stab at what part of Montana I call home.

 

[mtmiller]

Who might that be? Another poster on here reached out to the person who supposedly introduced the bill. That person claimed to know nothing about it.

I have quite a lot of experience too.

You are not "aware" enough to know the sponsor of the bill you are bitching about?

Get back to me when you have that figured out.

 

[406dn]

Okay, I'm willing to throw out a sensible solution rather than just bellyache about the lack of logic behind this attempt. Here's what I suggest. The state can break down upland hunting on the East Side into three separate seasons for nonresidents AND residents. Hunters will buy one and only one license per year designated for only one of those seasons. I think that would greatly reduce the opening week onslaught when pressure is traditionally heaviest and birds are most uneducated. Say, season #1 runs from opening of Huns/sharpies through to first week (or two?) of pheasants. Season #2 from thence to Thanksgiving. Season #3 = remainder of traditional season. West Side hunters can buy licenses for full length upland season but only applicable to the West Side. Might require pre-season license purchases (particularly for East Side zones) but I'm okay with that.

Back when I was working and also the chairman of the union for wage employees...if you were one of the wage employees... I'd be arguing for you against the company that this is not a sufficient cause for a drug test.

90+% of hunters would chose the first season and call it a day. The last season could have free licenses and still have few takers compared to the first season.

 

[MTLabrador]

Okay, I'm willing to throw out a sensible solution rather than just bellyache about the lack of logic behind this attempt. Here's what I suggest. The state can break down upland hunting on the East Side into three separate seasons for nonresidents AND residents. Hunters will buy one and only one license per year designated for only one of those seasons. I think that would greatly reduce the opening week onslaught when pressure is traditionally heaviest and birds are most uneducated. Say, season #1 runs from opening of Huns/sharpies through to first week (or two?) of pheasants. Season #2 from thence to Thanksgiving. Season #3 = remainder of traditional season. West Side hunters can buy licenses for full length upland season but only applicable to the West Side. Might require pre-season license purchases (particularly for East Side zones) but I'm okay with that.

Absolutely not. I can understand why you don’t like this bill, because you are the type of hunter it focuses on. But, like it or not, it should be the state’s job to protect the resource first, and opportunity for residents second.

In many of the places I hunt for pheasants in Montana the pressure has absolutely increased to an unsustainable level, to the point that I completely gave up on it this year and only hunted pheasants on private land. We need to do something to start addressing that problem, and targeting the nonresidents that camp here for a month is absolutely a fair place to start. It’s a lot more fair than telling a Montana resident that they can’t hunt September blue grouse and thanksgiving pheasants.

 

[BuzzH]

I think its a good bill, time for Residents to be rewarded for living in a State all year long.

I'm worn out with the NR thinking that they should have the same amount of opportunity as a Resident.

Non-Resident entitlement wears me out...hunt your own state, or country.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

I really don't know anyone who drives to Montana for the express purpose of hunting Huns for a month. It's not worth it. Sharptails? Meh! Marginal eating and spooky as hell after the first week of season. With the price of gas being what it is, I can't imagine anyone driving to Montana for the express purpose of shooting sharpies.

You need to think outside your bubble. It happens quite a lot.

PS. The sponsor of this bill may or may not have worked for FWP and later served on the commission.

 

[Ben Lamb]

You need to think outside your bubble. It happens quite a lot.

PS. The sponsor of this bill may or may not have worked for FWP and later served on the commission.

Pat was the Region 4 Administrator but wasn't on the Commission.

He's a darned good man and a champ for us in the Senate.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

Pat was the Region 4 Administrator but wasn't on the Commission.

He's a darned good man and a champ for us in the Senate.

Region 3, but yeah I had my Pats mixed up. No commission time for Sen Flowers.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Region 3, but yeah I had my Pats mixed up. No commission time for Sen Flowers.

I'd walk into battle with both of those Pat's by my side.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

I'd walk into battle with both of those Pat's by my side.

Yes!

 

[406dn]

I really don't know anyone who drives to Montana for the express purpose of hunting Huns for a month. It's not worth it. Sharptails? Meh! Marginal eating and spooky as hell after the first week of season. With the price of gas being what it is, I can't imagine anyone driving to Montana for the express purpose of shooting sharpies.

I apologize that earlier I said I'd let the rest of this post go.

I personally know of several people who come and hunt sharptails and huns for the month of September, stay thru October to hunt pheasants, then leave when the weather gets cold enough to take the fun out of it. These guys come out with motorhomes, with a pick up in tow.

Sharptails are entirely huntable for most of September if you have good pointing dogs, been there done that. They get tougher, but very doable until the calendar moves to October. It is still possible, but becomes increasingly more difficult throughout the rest of the season.

Many of the hunters coming for shaprtails and huns are very into pointing dogs. You could put me into that group. It isn't that they come, it is more they don't have a realization that perhaps they are staying past a reasonable welcome.

 

[OntarioHunter]

Absolutely not. I can understand why you don’t like this bill, because you are the type of hunter it focuses on. But, like it or not, it should be the state’s job to protect the resource first, and opportunity for residents second.

In many of the places I hunt for pheasants in Montana the pressure has absolutely increased to an unsustainable level, to the point that I completely gave up on it this year and only hunted pheasants on private land. We need to do something to start addressing that problem, and targeting the nonresidents that camp here for a month is absolutely a fair place to start. It’s a lot more fair than telling a Montana resident that they can’t hunt September blue grouse and thanksgiving pheasants.

The pressure may have increased but as far as I can see, and I have seen quite a bit for quite a few years, the exponential increase has been non-local Montana hunters. If anything, over the last couple of years I have seen a decline in out of state upland hunters. In fact almost none have been hunting the extremely popular federal land I now focus on. I'm sure the radically increased cost of fuel and now meals and lodging will only further decrease the nonresident load.

The problem with declining pheasant numbers has been chiefly less habitat due to disappearing CRP and overgrazing cover due to a combination of prolonged drought and poor cattle prices (ranchers holding onto cattle). And of course, the exponential increase in resident Montana hunters. Hosing a few out of state hunters is like pissing on a wildfire. Doing something but accomplishes nothing.

Interesting how some on here scream for micromanagement of mule deer and elk but can't wrap their head around it for pheasants. Just flock shoot the nonresidents. That'll fix it. No it won't. They're not the problem and I think we all know it.

 

[MTLabrador]

The pressure may have increased but as far as I can see, and I have seen quite a bit for quite a few years, the exponential increase has been non-local Montana hunters. If anything, over the last couple of years I have seen a decline in out of state upland hunters. In fact almost none have been hunting the extremely popular federal land I now focus on. I'm sure the radically increased cost of fuel and now meals and lodging will only further decrease the nonresident load.

The problem with declining pheasant numbers has been chiefly less habitat due to disappearing CRP and overgrazing cover due to a combination of prolonged drought and poor cattle prices (ranchers holding onto cattle). And of course, the exponential increase in resident Montana hunters. Hosing a few out of state hunters is like pissing on a wildfire. Doing something but accomplishes nothing.

Interesting how some on here scream for micromanagement of mule deer and elk but can't wrap their head around it for pheasants. Just flock shoot the nonresidents. That'll fix it. No it won't. They're not the problem and I think we all know it.

Your experience is almost completely the opposite of mine. As a resident bird hunter I am 100% in support of this bill, and if you were a resident you would be too.

 

[802flyfish]

About time…. Half tempted to take the first week of Pheasant season off this year. Wouldn’t be opposed if they made Sage Grouse off limits.

 

[bigskyblueman]

Pat Flowers was Region 3 Supervisor for many years and knows the subject matter as well or better than anyone in the Legislature, frankly, working cases with his wardens...Always a measured and thoughtful advocate for hunters from my many experiences with him...His sponsored bill needs to pass...