New ID Elk Management Plan

[Big Fin]

Must have been bored today, so I spent time skimming over the new Idaho Elk Management Plan that got approved recently. Anyone wanting to see how/why IDF&G is managing elk as they are should read this plan.

Here is the link ----> http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/public/wildlife/elkPlan/elkPlanFinalDraft.pdf

When I read pages 36 to 41, I was intrigued by the data pertaining to elk vulnerability in heavily roaded areas. Below is an extracted page that gets to the "quick and dirty" on how roads and trails impact elk and elk hunting opportunity. Pretty revealing.



Since I got lit up by a few of the supposed "wolf experts" last fall when we aired and episode that covered hunting roadless areas, I thought it would be good to post this one page about the impacts of motorized traffic and elk. I guess that is why some hunters shoot more elk than the guys who want to hammer me for promoting areas that are not heavily roaded.

Not that this comes as a surprise to most of you. Good reading at that link, and not just for Idaho elk hunters. A lot of the science and data is applicable to elk in any state, especially public land elk.

Enjoy ......

 

[Big Fin]

Page 40:

Tools and strategies.— Elk hunters generally support road closures as a management tool. However, there are many hunters and user groups who use OHVs and oppose road or trail access restrictions. Over 60% of hunters reported managing access (i.e., closing roads) was easily acceptable or tolerable as an elk management tool (Gratson and Whitman 2000b). Similarly, in a statewide survey of Idaho rifle hunters, only 10% of elk hunters reported closed roads were never acceptable, whereas 67% reported closed roads were always or usually acceptable (McLaughlin et al. 1989). Sanyal et al. (2012a) reported almost 73% of elk hunters found restricting use of OHVs an acceptable method to improve elk hunting in Idaho. Further, Sanyal et al. (2012a) found most elk hunters travel on foot when hunting, about one-third use OHVs or pack animals, and very few hunters use a mountain bike. In a separate survey of southern Idaho resident hunters (survey included mule deer, elk, and upland game hunters), Sanyal et al. (2012b) reported individuals who identified themselves as “primarily a hunter” strongly supported restricting motorized vehicles to established roadways (61%), whereas those who identified themselves as a “hunter and OHV enthusiast” strongly opposed (41%) restricting motorized vehicles to established roadways.

I wonder which category Dinkshooter falls into?

 

[WapitiBob]

Starkey Experimental Forest here has had their OHV study going on for quite a few years now. They're finding the same thing.

 

[Flatrock]

Screw walking. Road hunting is where it's at.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GtfbLRJKFM

 

[katqanna]

While I dont have Naylors paper, I do have quite a number that deal with the effects of roads on elk, one of which is a great review, written in 2013, of a number of the papers on the subject - A Brief Review of the Scientific Literature On Elk, Roads & Traffic

There are several others here.

 

[Oak]

I support restricting snowmobile access until after big game seasons are over (since they are not held to road/trail restrictions). No reason in particular.

 

[ida homer]

I support restricting snowmobile access until after big game seasons are over (since they are not held to road/trail restrictions). No reason in particular.

In Idaho we typically don't have enough snow to sled on until well after the big game seasons. There are a few rare exceptions to the rule of course.

 

[MtnWest]

In Idaho we typically don't have enough snow to sled on until well after the big game seasons. There are a few rare exceptions to the rule of course.

They need to keep them away from big game wintering grounds. I've seen a few herds run off from inconsiderate people. Inconsiderate wasn't one of the choice words in my mind at the time.

 

[ida homer]

They need to keep them away from big game wintering grounds. I've seen a few herds run off from inconsiderate people. Inconsiderate wasn't one of the choice words in my mind at the time.

Yah I know what you mean. It's stupid because at that time of year the good snowmobiling is up much much higher than the wintering herds, idiots.

I'm not sure what to think of the new 2 zone system. I can't decide if it will thin some areas out as people will fill their tags early in some zones and not make it to see the later rifle hunts or if everything will just become a zoo. What are your guys' thoughts?

 

[HighDesertSage]

Screw walking. Road hunting is where it's at.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GtfbLRJKFM

"you just shot a stuuuud...."

lol

 

[MtnWest]

Classic video there.

Not sure what the two zone will look like when the starting gun fires and everyone heads for the hills. I love to hunt and there are a few places I want to go but can't seem to give up my archery tag for. So with the new system I can hunt the Selway or Frank and still keep my security blanket.

I think the rifle hunts will get busy with unsuccessful archers especially around Boise like the weiser river zone. Council/west mountain get ready...

 

[elkantlers]

So you want to close the roads during the hunting seasons (Mid August to End November.) What about all the people that don't hunt but like to ATV in these areas? I don't think it is right to lock out a whole group of people to satisfy a different group. Multi use?

 

[idahofishnhunt]

So you want to close the roads during the hunting seasons (Mid August to End November.) What about all the people that don't hunt but like to ATV in these areas? I don't think it is right to lock out a whole group of people to satisfy a different group. Multi use?

This is exactly what all the ATV road hunters count on...this is what keeps it open for them to run all over the country.

I'm liking what Backcountry Hunters & Anglers did in Washington. If your being legal...and not using an ATV in non-motorized areas, and sticking to where you are supposed to be riding, then what are you worried about?

http://www.backcountryhunters.org/index.php/state-chapters/washington-bha/wa-news/513-success-washington-bha-passes-atv-identification-enforcement-legislation

 

[Big Fin]

So you want to close the roads during the hunting seasons (Mid August to End November.) What about all the people that don't hunt but like to ATV in these areas? I don't think it is right to lock out a whole group of people to satisfy a different group. Multi use?

When I have hunted in Utah, I could not find any roads that were closed. And, if I were to look at the motorized traffic off the roads and trails while I hunted there, I would be left to surmize that there is no requirement to stay on roads or trails. Seems Utah has pretty much everywhere open to motorized travel. If that is what the majority of Utah hunters want, then that is how it should be.

In Montana, we leave some of the main roads open, but the side roads and trails are closed. That was a choice made, in large part by hunters, in the early 1990s.

In the early 1990's when motorized traffic was proliferating in a manner similar to what you see in the chart in post #1, Montana FWP held many open meetings to guage where hunters were on the notion of increased elk security. They gave us two options:

1. Continue the growth of motorized travel and accept we will have to shorten seasons, probably put everything on limited entry draw, and most likely have "choose your weapn" restricitons. They had data, even at that time, that showed we could not continue to have this level of motorized travel and maintain our six weeks of archery followed by five weeks of general rifle.

OR

2. Accept some seasonal or permanent travel restrictions and try to keep our long seasons and avoid putting most of our elk hunting on limited entry.​

I attended many of the meetings. The comments were overwhelmingly in favor of #2. I would guess around 80%+ of the comments supported #2. That is the direction the Department headed with regards to seasonal or permanent restrictions in areas where motorized travel was negatively impacting elk hunting.

As a result, MT still has an eleven week general season. Very few of our units are on limited draw. We consistently shoot some of the best elk in the west in general units.

And, we still have huge amounts of our forests open to ATV/UTV travel, some of it open year-round. It seems to be working in Montana, though some on one side still want less motorized travel and some on the other side want more motorized travel.

There can be "Multiple Use" of public lands, as shown in Montana. Often happens that some feel multiple use is defined by restrctions/compromise/reduced opportunity by one side and no compromise on their side. That makes it hard to have any common sense solutions.

The bottom line to the discussion is that the decision on motorized travel has a huge impact on elk hunting opportunity. No other way around it.

 

[shoots-straight]

So you want to close the roads during the hunting seasons (Mid August to End November.) What about all the people that don't hunt but like to ATV in these areas? I don't think it is right to lock out a whole group of people to satisfy a different group. Multi use?

I've never hunted Utah, so without looking it up I won't know. How long are UTah's seasons?

ATV users can almost use their machines in you state year around. If they are limited for a month or two they should be alright with that. Multi use means just that, and hunting season closures would be a small inconvenience placed on them.

As Fin stated, we recognized that access means shorter seasons, and Montanans wanted to keep our 6 weeks of archery, and 5 weeks of rifle. Seems to work for us.

 

[Duck-Slayer]

I'm on the fence on this atv use stuff, I for many years only hunted the Frank and area's like this..... I was fortunate enough too do a 18 month deployment without getting my legs taken from me, but than an all attitude american that I was protecting over there ran a stop sign after I got home, and subsequently messed some of my brain and took some balance from me along with a few other things, I am now disabled, I now hunt an area with better access since I am almost strictly a bowhunter, so the open roads during archery season is a blessing for me and too be able access area's I never would have if not for logging roads that stay open during archery season, keep in mind I obviously hunt different type of terrain than the Frank now, so some of you young and older guys need too remember there are people that are not fortunate enough too still be able too access the roadless area's, that being said, I can still walk with my trusty walking stick and help from my very beautiful and understanding wife, I would be too closing say half of the open logging roads too motorized travel and maybe have all the trails/trailheads be non-motorized, I see both sides of it, seems like more people need too look at both sides and not just lump everyone into irresponsible ATV user....

They need too just leave it alone...... so far in the 3 zone's I've hunted in I don't see any problems.... can't help all the old timers used too be able too shoot there elk from the truck every year, now they have too actually get out and HUNT.... man that sucks:W:

all I have too say is if a 106lbs women and a disabled man can get an elk back2back years of there first year's elk hunting in Idaho I think anybody can.... just don't be lazy.... walking 2-3 miles one way isn't that hard on closed logging roads.... two years ago my wife and I talked too an elderly couple up elk hunting.... 70 and 68 if I remember and they were smaller in stature, they had a cow and a deer hanging in there camp.... yet our younger generation are lazy pussy's..... and complain how little game they see.... really!!!! my rant is over..... excuse some of the language.....
Matt

 

[brymoore]

I'm not sure what to think of the new 2 zone system. I can't decide if it will thin some areas out as people will fill their tags early in some zones and not make it to see the later rifle hunts or if everything will just become a zoo. What are your guys' thoughts?

I think it will increase pressure on the elk. It would allow someone to hunt two openers. I could potentially pick a unit with a 10/15 and 11/1 opener and hunt bulls for 4 weeks.

I really see no reason to do this except IDF&G is seeking new sources of revenue. There fee increase this year is also full of gimmicks. They need to raise resident fees and stop the tricks trying to justify the fee increase.

 

[idahohuntr]

I think it will increase pressure on the elk. It would allow someone to hunt two openers. I could potentially pick a unit with a 10/15 and 11/1 opener and hunt bulls for 4 weeks.

I really see no reason to do this except IDF&G is seeking new sources of revenue. There fee increase this year is also full of gimmicks. They need to raise resident fees and stop the tricks trying to justify the fee increase.

As I read the plan I did not see where the 2 zone system was going to be implemented yet. Just that more study would be done about potential impacts because there was not great support for either specific proposal?? Maybe I missed something?

 

[Steelhead]

Screw walking. Road hunting is where it's at.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GtfbLRJKFM

The last hunting show I watched was one like that...driving around sitting in raised platforms "hunting" makes me want to puke.

 

[Steelhead]

I'm on the fence on this atv use stuff, I for many years only hunted the Frank and area's like this..... I was fortunate enough too do a 18 month deployment without getting my legs taken from me, but than an all attitude american that I was protecting over there ran a stop sign after I got home, and subsequently messed some of my brain and took some balance from me along with a few other things, I am now disabled, I now hunt an area with better access since I am almost strictly a bowhunter, so the open roads during archery season is a blessing for me and too be able access area's I never would have if not for logging roads that stay open during archery season, keep in mind I obviously hunt different type of terrain than the Frank now, so some of you young and older guys need too remember there are people that are not fortunate enough too still be able too access the roadless area's, that being said, I can still walk with my trusty walking stick and help from my very beautiful and understanding wife, I would be too closing say half of the open logging roads too motorized travel and maybe have all the trails/trailheads be non-motorized, I see both sides of it, seems like more people need too look at both sides and not just lump everyone into irresponsible ATV user....

They need too just leave it alone...... so far in the 3 zone's I've hunted in I don't see any problems.... can't help all the old timers used too be able too shoot there elk from the truck every year, now they have too actually get out and HUNT.... man that sucks:W:

all I have too say is if a 106lbs women and a disabled man can get an elk back2back years of there first year's elk hunting in Idaho I think anybody can.... just don't be lazy.... walking 2-3 miles one way isn't that hard on closed logging roads.... two years ago my wife and I talked too an elderly couple up elk hunting.... 70 and 68 if I remember and they were smaller in stature, they had a cow and a deer hanging in there camp.... yet our younger generation are lazy pussy's..... and complain how little game they see.... really!!!! my rant is over..... excuse some of the language.....
Matt

I like it. I'm sorry that you got disabled and I feel that you should ALWAYS be able to hunt. Of course there will always be some that take advantage of the situation but disabled folks should ALWAYS have an advantage when it comes to access.

About roads...it's amazing how many people don't heed the "just get a mile off'n the road" advice.