ND Bighorn Deaths

[Big Fin]

I love to hunt and plan on hunting for as long as i physically can.

I hope you do.

With that said, I do disagree with how some public lands are being taken over by the fed govt. look at the front range up by Augusta MT, it's a fed land grab, no mountain bikers, no livestock, no public access.

I am curious as to what you speak of. I no of nothing where the public lands around Augusta are being handled in this manner. Please elaborate. Given I hunt public lands north of there occasionally, I would be interested to know of this "fed land grab."

And the Nature Conservancy is buying up land like crazy in many areas. With no economical benefit to any one, and there is definitely no hunting or fishing on many of those properties they have bought.

TNC is a private enterprise, entitled to purchase and hold land the same as any other person/entity in this country. We can't tell them what to do with land they purchase, no more than we can tell you what to do with your family property. I doubt you are suggesting private property rights not be respected, but that comment starts down that road. Curious what you think is a solution, without destroying the property rights of TNC.

Oh, and there are TNC properties in Montana are enrolled in Block Management and open to hunting. Not all, but some. And some good ones.

 

[Slick]

If you check, there isn't a single sheep rancher near the bighorn herd in ND.

There may not be a sheep rancher that predominantly raises sheep like there are cattle ranches in western ND. All it takes is one encounter with a stray domestic sheep for it to spread, and once it's in the herd there's no telling how big the die off will or wont be. Look at the herd near Quake Lake and the Highlands, yes they've rebounded but look how many years it took. Theres a lot of time, planning, effort and money between many organizations and sportsmen and women alike that happens for a relocation to take place. Not to mention the cost of the sheep and the collars. As stewards of the land, you would be aware of the threat domestic sheep have on wild ones and keep your animals in check.

 

[ForkYouCattleCo]

Look up the Rocky Mountain Heritage Front Act (RMFHA) S-364 introduced by Sen. Baucus before he became an ambassador. Who's major sole supporter is the Coalition to Protect the Rocky Mountain Front, who's phone number traces back to a former board member of the Sierra Club, their website is registered to Gloria Flora, who traces back to the now infamous Sagebrush Rebellion near Jarbridge in Humbolt County. A road closure issue and an outhouse sparked that huge mess of things.
The Front Range is a hot topic, I worked for a rancher there just out of college, and I loved it up there, I would hate to see that area closed down. If the RMFHA passes, public input on any type of use there, is closed down, only govt policies to follow, and the people who use it for recreation, or for a living, no longer have a say in it.

TNC- has every right to own property as you stated, as a private entity....but they have turned over a lot of acreage to state and federal governments. Under many guises. I fear that too many public lands are held in "trust" by special interest groups from back east(Washington) and turned into their own private playgrounds under the the guise of "public land". The Taylor Grazing Act of 1934 was a fundamental land use law, along with the Federal Land Bank system, to ensure, protect, and stabilize the ranges of the western states. With that said, what started as a very noble and good thing, has deteriorated into what the NFS and BLM have us in, unsound, unfactuall, and unintelligent so called science.
The EPA has raised the number of endangered species a hundred fold or better in the last 20 years, and most of them, like the white sucker fish in the Klamath Basin, are non-native invasive species!
That is what I don't like about the TNC, turning ground over to an already flawed in-userfiendly group of agencies.
Like you said tho, it is private property, and can be dealt with however the owner sees fit.
The land that I have been entrusted with, and the public land that I hunt on, is very special, in many ways. And I would dearly hope that it is available for the same use it has been used for for the last 100+ years, for the next hundred or so for all of our grandchildren to enjoy.
We are just too busy as a people pointing fingers instead of rolling up our sleeves and bearing down to get it done.
And I hate to see such a rift between the hunting community and agriculture, they have been hand in hand for generations, both benefitting from the other in so many ways.

 

[ForkYouCattleCo]

Slick,

Believe me, I fully understand about keeping my animals in check. Good fences make good neighbors! But I'm telling you, other than an odd 4-H lamb maybe, that would be locked up in a pen of some sorts, due to cost, and the fact that a kid would be working with it, there are no sheep near the bighorns in the Badlands, or in fact near the Cadomin Mine area up in Canada. I don't dispute that there are interactions between sheep and wild sheep in areas. Both the same goes for buffalo, they carry TB, which causes quarantines, and HUGE, economic losses for a producer who's livestock test positive from contact with the buffalo. It goes both ways, pot calling the kettle black a bit.
I am a HUGE, let me say that again, A HUGE, proponent of wild sheep, I'm addicted to them, and they are far and away my favorite game animal. I actually miss seeing the day to day sights of them on the ranch I had leased for so long. They were lick our pets in a sense. They would be in our hay yard, up in the meadow, and I watched them raise the lambs, their full on smashing glory fighting in the rut, and the sight of them in the cowfaced nasty rough canyons of the Badlands is an awesome sight.
I only hope that I can get drawn again someday for another sheep hunt, so yes I do deeply care about their well being and their perpetuation.

 

[alwayshunting]

And if you take the time to study sheep numbers across North America, they are all battling the same virus, and some of those herds, as is the case of the herd here in the Badlands, have never come into contact with domestic sheep.

If you check, there isn't a single sheep rancher near the bighorn herd in ND.

But I'm telling you, other than an odd 4-H lamb maybe, that would be locked up in a pen of some sorts, due to cost, and the fact that a kid would be working with it, there are no sheep near the bighorns in the Badlands, or in fact near the Cadomin Mine area up in Canada

Quotes from original link: "Tests show the disease is from contact with domestic sheep."

"He saw the 35 domestic sheep this May while flying a mule deer survey and immediately visited with the owner, since trying to isolate bighorns from the domestic sheep is a top priority.

“The owner felt terrible. He had no idea. He said they’d be loaded up that day and they were gone,” Wiedmann said."

"He said a young ram can wander up to 15 miles to encounter domestic ewes in estrus."


Are you saying that what is being said in this article is false and that the bighorns did not come into contact with domestic sheep?

 

[Big Fin]

Look up the Rocky Mountain Heritage Front Act (RMFHA) S-364 introduced by Sen. Baucus before he became an ambassador. Who's major sole supporter is the Coalition to Protect the Rocky Mountain Front, who's phone number traces back to a former board member of the Sierra Club, their website is registered to Gloria Flora, who traces back to the now infamous Sagebrush Rebellion near Jarbridge in Humbolt County. A road closure issue and an outhouse sparked that huge mess of things.

The Front Range is a hot topic, I worked for a rancher there just out of college, and I loved it up there, I would hate to see that area closed down. If the RMFHA passes, public input on any type of use there, is closed down, only govt policies to follow, and the people who use it for recreation, or for a living, no longer have a say in it.

No need for me to look it up. Many on this site have been very involved in that legislation. I know what it says. I know what it will do. I know what impacts it will have on hunters and public access.

You said in your prior post, it was a Federal land grab and "there would be no mountain bikers, no livestock, no public access."

There will be mountain biking. There will be livestock. There will be public access. If you have read otherwise, I would like to see where it is written. If you have been told otherwise, I would suggest your source has not read the legislation and does you no favor by giving you such bad interpretation on the topic.

I don't take exception with differing opinions. I do take exception when opinions are passed off as supposed fact, as is the case with your comments about the RMFHA. You are incorrect about who was involved in getting that legislation introduced and more incorrect in your statements about what impacts the legislation will have.

If I am wrong about the RMFHA, please provide your citations to validate what you have said. I doubt it, given how involved I, and others I know, have been in that legislation.

Carry on .....

 

[alwayshunting]

We have more wildlife here in ND than ever.

I think many would disagree with this statement.

Whitetail-down throughout the state lowest tag numbers since the 80's, due to disease and winters
Mule Deer-very low tag numbers, no does allowed to harvest for the last three years, due to multiple hard winters
Antelope-first year having a season in five years and it is a very limited season with only one unit open, due to multiple hard winters.
Elk-tags cut way back since TRNP elk reduction last couple years, half the tags then what were offered three years ago.
Bighorn-were looking good until this article came out.
Sage grouse and prairie chicken seasons closed for last few years. Pheasant doing okay but not as good as they were. Waterfowl is one bright spot after increased moisture the last five years. Clearly there is not more wildlife than ever right now in ND. Yes they are higher numbers than many years ago, but not better than ever.

Actually the largest amount of money that has come from the oilfield HAS gone for wildlife. And not on improving the roads, hospitals, or schools in the affected counties.

The following link has a breakdown of oil revenue allocations for ND. Wildlife is not getting the largest amount of money. https://www.ndoil.org/image/cache/Wardner.pdf

Don't bash what you don't know or fully have the facts on.

 

[tjones]

No need for me to look it up. Many on this site have been very involved in that legislation. I know what it says. I know what it will do. I know what impacts it will have on hunters and public access.

You said in your prior post, it was a Federal land grab and "there would be no mountain bikers, no livestock, no public access."

There will be mountain biking. There will be livestock. There will be public access. If you have read otherwise, I would like to see where it is written. If you have been told otherwise, I would suggest your source has not read the legislation and does you no favor by giving you such bad interpretation on the topic.

I don't take exception with differing opinions. I do take exception when opinions are passed off as supposed fact, as is the case with your comments about the RMFHA. You are incorrect about who was involved in getting that legislation introduced and more incorrect in your statements about what impacts the legislation will have.

If I am wrong about the RMFHA, please provide your citations to validate what you have said. I doubt it, given how involved I, and others I know, have been in that legislation.

Carry on .....

Checkmate.

 

[mdunc8]

The EPA has raised the number of endangered species a hundred fold or better in the last 20 years, and most of them, like the white sucker fish in the Klamath Basin, are non-native invasive species!

I'm not sure where to start with this one.

 

[Big Fin]

I'm not sure where to start with this one.

Me either. That one was such a home run pitch, I just left it alone.

 

[RobG]

Checkmate.

Even in a sheep thread you can't pull the wool over Fin's eyes

 

[ForkYouCattleCo]

What area did they fly? As I know all of the landowners/ranchers where the band of sheep is that I am talking about. And I know for a fact there are no sheep in that particular area.
I will sound like the anti-Christ here... yes rams will travel, so does that mean that every single domestic sheep needs to disappear? I realize how much money is spent on sheep introductions and the health and study of the herds. But, you must also realize, those are public animals, who can and do wander onto private lands, just like the buffalo, or CWD infected deer/elk can. And I doubt there would be land owner out there, who wouldn't do exactly what the one mentioned did. Everyone I know here, is a big fan of the sheep, and we all hope to see their numbers rise, and hopefully one day, draw that once in a lifetime tag.

I would surmise that that particular band of sheep is one that is on the south side of the river, like I said, I know for a FACT, that there are no sheep anywhere near the ranch that I had leased, not even 4-H lambs. As half of them are my relations, and there is a huge chunk of public ground, Theodore Roosevelt Park, and I know for certain, there isn't ANY domestic animals in there. They culled out even the longhorn steers that had been there for 20 years, that the park introduced.

 

[Oak]

Die-off singes sheep growers

October 01, 2014 5:00 am
By Lauren Donovan

Sheep growers feel they’ve been made black sheep by being blamed for the worst pneumonia die-off of wild bighorn sheep in the state’s 50-year program history.

As of Tuesday, a total of 23 prized bighorn sheep are dead of pneumonia in the northern Badlands habitat, most from a new group brought in from the Northern Rockies of Alberta, Canada. The die-off started in early August and continues, though fatalities are very much slowing the past four weeks.

The Dickinson district Game and Fish biologist who works most closely with the bighorn program believes the illness came from contact with a small, local flock of domestic sheep, because they are known carriers of the specific bacteria micro-plasma ovipneumonia found in the dead bighorns.

Big game biologist Brett Wiedmann continues to hold firm, though the state Game and Fish Department acknowledges now that the connection can’t be made with 100 percent certainty.

“We can’t say that with certainty because we don’t have tests from the domestic sheep,” said Jeb Williams, chief of the state wildlife division.

The agency met with the North Dakota Lamb and Wool Producers Association and the Board of Animal Health last week. They decided that while there hasn’t been much need to communicate in the past, there is now.

Williams said regional research finds the primary way to keep the wild ones healthy is to separate them from domestic sheep.

Brad Gilbertson of Sherwood, vice chairman of the sheep producers group, said he has questions about that.

He said the resident bighorns had been the same three miles from the domestic sheep for years and nothing happened.

“They were there in 2011, and no problem. They were there in 2012, and no problem. They were there in 2013, and no problem. Then in 2014, they bring in the bighorns from Alberta. Why did they live three miles apart in harmony and all of a sudden the bighorns from Alberta come and in and we have a die-off?” he said.

The sheep in question were given to a young girl as part of the association’s “starter flock program.” Gilbertson said the 15-year-old girl now believes she’s responsible for the biggest die-off in history, and “I don’t know if that’s true.”

The girl’s family removed them immediately after the deaths were discovered and Game and Fish talked to them about the potential problem.

“I’m not going to say the domestic sheep had nothing to do with this. I don’t have that science, but I expect Game and Fish to give me that same courtesy,” he said.

No one saw any interaction between the wild and domestic groups, and the radio collars provide location, but no traveling record.

That’s part of State Veterinarian Susan Keller’s problem with pointing a finger so directly. The other is lack of science.

“We have no witnesses to any interaction. We have no indication that the domestic sheep were carrying the (bacteria),” she said. “We can’t say it didn’t happen, but there’re no test results that proved it was in the domestic sheep.”

She said the translocated animals were very likely stressed — itself a severe health concern — and among possibilities are that the resident bighorns were carrying the bacteria and it was transferred to the Alberta group, or the Alberta group was carriers and it was triggered by their own stress.

Keller said there’s inherent risk in moving animals from one place to another into contact with existing populations.

“Maybe it’s a bad idea to bring bighorn sheep in if they should not be co-mingled — it’s a two-edged sword, the risk and adding biodiversity in the population,” she said. “In our state, I thought we had accepted that risk.”

Keller said there’s no question the micro-plasma ovipneumonia is a nasty bacteria. “We just can’t say where it came from,” she said.

It’s not known if more than 23 are dead; only those that are radio-collared can be pinpointed. Sixteen of the fatalities are from among two dozen bighorns that were translocated to the grasslands from the Northern Rockies of Alberta, Canada, early this year. All of the Alberta bighorns have collars.

The other seven fatalities are from the resident group and only about 20 percent are collared.

There had been about 200 bighorn sheep in that northern Badlands “hub” for the animals, in a western North Dakota population of about 350.

Nearly all of the fatalities were recorded between Aug. 5 and Sept. 9. Since then, only three more have been detected by the collars, which give off a “beep-beep-beep-beep-beep” signal when the animal is dead. Of the latest, two more were in the Alberta group, and one was in the resident group, Williams said.

The illness can wipe out from 30 to 95 percent of a bighorn population and the agency can only wait and see what happens.

There is no vaccine either for wild or domestic sheep.

Domestic sheep production is a small piece of agricultural value in North Dakota and it continues to decline. There were 64,000 sheep on 661 farms in the state in 2012, compared to 88,000 sheep on 678 farms in 2007, according to the Census of Agriculture.

(Reach Lauren Donovan at 701-220-5511 or [email protected].)

http://bismarcktribune.com/news/sta...cle_d6f773b0-491a-11e4-bece-a7396d8eaf6e.html