Is a wall tent too heavy to backpack in?

[npaden]

I would say that the longer stove is better IME. You don't have to cut your wood as many times.

I have a liteoutdoors XL stove and it will burn about 2 hours if you stuff it to the gills and get the damper set right. Of course in my 6 man tipi that means that you are sweating with your sleeping bag unzipped when it is running full throttle and you wake up about an hour later and have to zip up your sleeping bag and then an hour after that you better have an alarm set to add wood to the fire or it will go out. It seems to be a trade off between being too warm and then getting cold in the night if it dies out. On one night when it was below ZERO we kept it going all night in shifts but generally it gets fired up about 1/2 throttle a little before bedtime and then just let it go out.

http://www.liteoutdoors.com/product/xl-titanium-stove/

When it shines is when it is cold and wet outside and you can fire it up and let things dry out and you are toasty warm inside the tent.

 

[guserto4]

Thanks for the clarification on the trees.

High impact hunters are a sore spot with me. I've seen a lot of hunter camps with live trees cut down, sticks pounded into live trees to tie up horses, mounds of beer cans and other trash, metal grates and other camp junk left behind, etc.

I try to leave no trace if possible.

I appreciate your concern with high impact users. I'm an eagle scout (troop 6 out of Batavia, IL, circa 2000) so it was drilled into me that you leave a place better than you found it. It's your public land in addition to mine, so I don't believe anyone has an excuse to leave a place looking dumpy.

I have the medium kifaru in the sawtooth. It will drive you out of the tent if you feed it.
Size relates more to burn time then temperature. Bigger stove equals bigger pieces of wood which dictates burn time. None of the backpacking stoves will burn very long. When i truck camp I use scrape 2x6 cut to the length of stove and fill it up. It will burn about 45 minutes and stay hot/warm about 1.5 hours. When backpacking I use dead fall for fuel and only get about 20 minutes burn due to the smaller chunks of wood.

For these reasons I suggest the medium - lighter and a bit smaller. Someone with 8-man experience might chime in but I would think the medium stove would drive you out of an 8-man with a good fuel source. The larger stove will get a bit more burn time. It is all a trade off when it comes to lightweight.

When it is cold I heat the tent as I get ready to sleep. About 3:00am As temps hit the lowest I will fire the stove and go back to sleep. About an hour later it is cold again so I stoke it about 4:00 am and have a hot tent when alarm goes off at 4:30.

makes sense to keep the stove smaller and lighter, but I do also like the idea of a longer stove so you don't have to make as many cuts in the wood stock. Plus the rules of convection make me believe that a longer stove might mean a longer burn time, but that's assuming you don't get the whole inside burning at once, which in a 20" space is somewhat laughable.

I would say that the longer stove is better IME. You don't have to cut your wood as many times.

I have a liteoutdoors XL stove and it will burn about 2 hours if you stuff it to the gills and get the damper set right. Of course in my 6 man tipi that means that you are sweating with your sleeping bag unzipped when it is running full throttle and you wake up about an hour later and have to zip up your sleeping bag and then an hour after that you better have an alarm set to add wood to the fire or it will go out. It seems to be a trade off between being too warm and then getting cold in the night if it dies out. On one night when it was below freezing we kept it going all night in shifts but generally it gets fired up about 1/2 throttle a little before bedtime and then just let it go out.

http://www.liteoutdoors.com/product/xl-titanium-stove/

When it shines is when it is cold and wet outside and you can fire it up and let things dry out and you are toasty warm inside the tent.

I'll check out liteoutdoors, thanks for the suggestions!

 

[Sytes]

https://seekoutside.com/titanium-wood-stove-large/

The large and a 9' pipe (Not sure the clearance for the 8' man so may need more?) will do all and your only talking about a few oz. difference between a medium and the large. You're bragging about your pack mule crew, few extra ounces should not be a problem.

One factor I liked about the seek outside rectangular over the sausage stoves, the rectangular has a great wide top to heat food and water. Also, easier to place limbs with knocked off knobs vs the cylindrical style. While the other has a plate that can add to the circular setup, I find additions are more susceptible to issues. As many wise ones said, Keep It Simple Stupid.

 

[LopeHunter]

Okay, I am an idea man. Always have been. Inspired by Night Shift movie, you know, "Feed the mayo to the tuna then put in the can" greatness.

Getting wall tent 3 miles into wilderness. Without motors. Without wheels. A plan by LopeHunter.
Step 1. Weigh wall tent and tarps and stakes and cots and sleeping pads and bags and cook stove and axe.
Step 2. Consult helium website.
Step 3. Acquire suitable mylar balloon using info found in Step 2.
Step 4. Acquire helium bottles to fill mylar balloon
Step 5. Reach trailhead.
Step 6. Attach gear to balloon.
Step 7. Fill balloon.
Step 8. Navigate to campsite.
Step 9. Tether balloon to something heavier than the tent, etc.
Step 10. Unload supplies. Live like kings.

Well, that is my 10 step plan. Good luck and post pictures of your hunt.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Step 11. Invent new curse words when you try float supplies out on mylar balloons that have lost some of their helium.

 

[guserto4]

You joke about unconventional means and methods, but I was seriously eyeing inflatable rafts and a creek as a way to move gear & meat! Likely it'll turn out to be a mud trough and not a flowing river while I'm there, or maybe even more likely a flowing river with tons of log debris (so close!)

Helium balloons might be more plausible p) I like where your head's at!

I checked out a few varieties of stoves last night and while I think I like the cylindrical stove design a little better I think I'm likely to go box. Part of being part pack mule is that there's a distinct lack of grace and I don't want an easily trampled or banged up stove. I also like the idea of a flat place for warming coffee pots, etc. maybe if it were just me and the gf I'd go cylindrical, but I worry about the robustness of gear with hunting buddies.

 

[Keeptrying]

Have any of the out ever backpack camped before?

What is your level of fitness? What is the weakest link in regards to that?

I don't mean to stomp on your dreams, but backpack camping is a whole new level of suck if you are not prepared. I know shit about hunting out of a backpack, but have camped and traveled extensively while living out of one. I would advise you to use a little caution.

 

[windymtnman]

A dry wall tent that size is a heavy, bulky, difficult to pack load. Now, imagine a wet tent and packing that!

 

[Schism]

Perhaps hiring a local wrangler to haul your gear in on horseback is an option?

Wall tents, large stoves, coffee pots...Doesn't sound like anything I want to be a part of packing into the backcountry!

 

[mtnrunner260]

Guserto4 check out Titanium Goat wifi stoves as well.
http://www.titaniumgoat.com/stove-WiFi.html

You are on the right track with a lightweight silnylon tipi and pack-able stove.
I've used the Kifaru Sawtooth and Tut with the lite outdoors stove. I use it to warm tent up before going to bed and before getting out of bag in am. If your bag isn't warm enough that you want to run stove all night your doing it wrong.
Having a ground cloth like Tyvek is nice in the floorless shelter. I also run my bag/pad in a lightweight bivy from Borah gear. Keeps everything together and you on top of the pad. Also adds a couple degrees to your bag.

Look forward to hearing how the trip goes for you guys.

 

[Eyeguy]

Have any of the out ever backpack camped before?

What is your level of fitness? What is the weakest link in regards to that?

I don't mean to stomp on your dreams, but backpack camping is a whole new level of suck if you are not prepared. I know shit about hunting out of a backpack, but have camped and traveled extensively while living out of one. I would advise you to use a little caution.

Guys. Seriously listen to this above. Its pretty to the point....but he's right. Backcountry backpack hunting is not a picnic. You don't take stoves and coffee pots and wall tents.....you take what you NEED. Every ounce on your back takes a toll. Nothing in your pack can be wasted weight. Nothing. We go in around 6.5 miles....but 3-4 miles from the road is no joke. You need to start hiking NOW with weight. I do one 4 mile hike a week with near 60 pounds. The first time I packed in my pack was close to 65 pounds. TONS of wasted crap I didnt need. My pack this year will be closer to 40 maybe a little less as I upgraded packs this year to a pack that weighs less and we are going archery instead of rifle. And I will pack smarter. Backpacking is a whole new level of "suck" as posted above. If you want a wall tent and luxury then just camp at the road and hike in the 3 miles light. You can make that easy every day with a light pack. Imagine that extra weight you are planning on taking....and now having a great, successful hunt. You will have to pack out all that elk as well. I seriously hope you guys have an awesome time and are very successful...but your mindset makes me think you need to re-think a couple of things. Just trying to be realistic. Good luck guys!

 

[guserto4]

I do not take lightly what you guys are saying about weight and being mountain ready.

Over Memorial Day weekend in the Smokys my girlfriend and I did 40 miles (backcountry backpack camping), climbing and descending what I calculated was the equivalent of more than 3 Sears Tower in 3 days (if your a true Chicagoan, it'll always be the Sears Tower). We had been hiking a minimum of 10 miles a week since January preparing and on that trip I carried close to 60 lbs partly out of stupidity, partly out of desire to feel a little more prepared for Idaho. The hunting buddies and I have done backcountry canoe trips to BWCA. I've solo backcountry backpacked in Sequoia. All of this "chest pumping" is an attempt to say that I have some idea of the kind of hiking and weight we will face in Idaho, and you all are 100% right, every ounce counts and man, elevation kills.

I started this thread out not having any experience with wall tents, but given the potential mountain conditions in October, wanted some way to "hot tent" this trip. What seemed like the natural, robust way to go was a wall tent, but without owning one or knowing anyone who does, I thought they were ~50-60lbs. Clearly no picnic to carry but at 5% slope for 3 miles, I felt (and still do) confident we could get that done (a little stupid, sure, but once in would be nice to have). When I found out the one I'd been eyeing was more like 100lbs, that stopped me in my tracks and I figured I'd better hear from you guys that that was too stupid to do.

I got the reassurance I was looking for!

The inclination for a wall tent and also some of the questions I've asked have been because whatever I buy for this trip, it had d@mn well better be useful for a myrid of other types of trips. The coffee pot, or eluding to other non essential items is because if my girlfriend ever hears how much I'm about to spend on a tent or tipi, I sure as sh!t had better have a strategy for my explanation!

 

[Keeptrying]

Sounds good. Just be careful.

Maybe think about a base camp by the vehicles, and smaller lightweight overnight individual stuff. That way those with less drive, or who are struggling with altitude, can stay closer to camp, and those who are more ambitious can spike camp.

We just bought a Kodiak tent for our base setup. We had an Alaskan Guide dome from Cabela's which was bombproof, but not very comfortable.

 

[Eyeguy]

Sounds like you guys have thought it through and are taking the necessary steps. I think everyone on here just wants to see you guys do well and have fun. Good luck!

 

[guserto4]

Thanks guys, much appreciated! I am excited for this first of many trips. I think this'll beat out my love of Midwest whitetails hands down. I can't get enough of the learning and preparing for it!

 

[Keeptrying]

It only gets worse from here. Or better. However you want to look at it.

 

[Elkmagnet]

I'm confused how you calculate a 5% grade? Most places along the Frank Church are going to be 50-140% grade with the exception of one spot that I'm aware of by Johnson Creek and one by seafoam.
Expect 100% grade or a 45° angle to be the norm. That's one foot of elevation for every foot of distance.
That Sears tower comment makes me wonder if you are under estimating the area. A lot of the guys giving you advice climb the equivalent of the Sears tower before daylight most day's of the hunt. Sometimes two or three towers in a mile.

That said if you are going where I think you are you have a decent cancel at success. Happy trails!

 

[Sytes]

edited... Wilderness restrictions for alt transport idea. Oops

 

[guserto4]

I'm confused how you calculate a 5% grade? Most places along the Frank Church are going to be 50-140% grade with the exception of one spot that I'm aware of by Johnson Creek and one by seafoam.
Expect 100% grade or a 45° angle to be the norm. That's one foot of elevation for every foot of distance.
That Sears tower comment makes me wonder if you are under estimating the area. A lot of the guys giving you advice climb the equivalent of the Sears tower before daylight most day's of the hunt. Sometimes two or three towers in a mile.

That said if you are going where I think you are you have a decent cancel at success. Happy trails!

The way I figured 5% was 900' (based on topo lines on google maps terrain) / 3 miles (3*5280 using distance measured on google earth) so, 900/15840=5.68%. My memory rounded down... call it 6%. That's also 6% average as I can clearly see there's stretches of sidehilling where we aren't gaining much elevation. That was JUST for the route I picked from the car to where I want to setup basecamp, and not where I see us hunting. I should mention that I work as a land surveyor and civil engineer and look at topography professionally and not just on my lunch hour BUT I recognize that much of the region is steep steep steep. That's the big reason I don't want to car camp it, just another 3 miles to add to the hike in and out everyday.

Anyway, glad to hear I sound like I'm headed generally in the right direction. I have zero doubt this trip will kick our butts, but that's part of the fun of it. Like Steve Rinella says, the kind of fun that's fun while you're doing it is lower quality than the kind of fun that's retroactively fun- like "remember that terrible pack out after I shot that bull? MAN was that fun." Nobody looks back years later talks about how fun a rollercoaster was.

 

[Elkmagnet]

Ok. Sounds like you have reasonable expectations.
I was questioning you not to be insulting but solely because it's hard to find a 3-mile stretch in that region with only 900 ft of elevation change. I won't question your ability to read Topo I just wanted to caution you to make sure that you're considering all "elevation change" in route and not just "elevation gain" from point A to point B. It sounds like you already know that.