In need of some help in Montana

[gutshootem]

Let me start by saying I'm not looking for a handout, just some direction to help me progress through my planning stages.

Myself and a few friends are planning to buy deer combo tags and hunt SE Montana this November. Due to work/family obligations, we can only hunt a week-driving sat/sun, hunting through the week and traveling back the following sat/sun. Probably going to be the week prior to Thanksgiving. Coming from PA & MD. Most all of our experience is whitetail hunting the east and midwest. I did one successful solo antelope hunt in WY and one other guy did a DIY trip to Idaho last year and was successful on a muley and elk. Not sure how much of the planning he's going to be involved in though, as he's the friend of a friend.

So I've been using the hunt planner and another tax mapping website and looking over a lot of ground the last two days but to be honest, I'm not that sure what I'm even supposed to be looking for. I've mainly just focused on areas that looked like somewhere we could get away from the roads but I also really don't want to hike back in 2 miles and have 4 wheelers zipping by me either. From what I understand, you can ride them on blm land but not state land, is this correct? I'm a little confused because I'm also seeing some dirt roads on the state land as well? Anything else as far as terrain goes that I should be looking for to hold mule deer? This is all alot different then looking for funnels and saddles to concentrate whitetail movement.

We also plan to look into BM property but from what I've read, that info doesn't come out until August.
Also, I know the weather can be anywhere from 70° to -10°. Are we going to live through the hunt staying in a 12X12 Cabela's Outback Lodge tent?

PM if you prefer.

 

[SteveE]

I feel your pain. Google earth is way big...

Forget the whitetail strategy. Sitting saddles out here will get you a nap.
Look for blocks of public bordering private, get landownership chip and hunt those boundary lines covering a ton of ground and glass. Optics and boot leather is how I find mule deer.
Passing up younger bucks is how you find big mule deer.

Any legal road on blm or state can be driven on by truck or atv. Order the blm map of the area you pick. If it shows a road and is legally accesable you can drive it. Many times the roads will be land locked by private so you can't legally drive in but if the section has a legal county road touching it you can walk in. Those are the section I focus on.

I have had shady things go on with BM properties out there. I would not waste time on those.

You will need a stove in late November. Camp in a burnt section and bring a chainsaw. Lots of dead timber around in a few areas. Some areas have no wood so pick your camp spot with that in mind.

And lastly, dont gutshootem

 

[HalfAce]

I few things:

- Be more prepared for cold than for warm. Can be down to -40 during the time frame you mention.
- 12x12 tent will be good for 3 guys.
- Check the MTFWP website around August for a map which shows all the enrolled Block Management properties enrolled to hunt that year. I've had many great experiences in the past on BM properties. But plan on hunting BLM and state land too.
- If you see non county roads crossing private and BLM, assume you can only drive them until the point where they cross private, after which your not allowed to go further. Being your first year, you will surely hike a few miles in and cross a two track or three that cross private and public. These are roads that the locals, BLM and trespassing non-locals made. Its a pain in the ass to hike for miles to come across this type of stuff, but its all part of the process. It takes years to get acquainted with an area.
- Like Steve said, don't try and hunt funnels and saddles. Just hike, and glass, or set up early and late on a high spot and glass. The most productive thing for me has been to slowly walk the edges of coulees and jump shoot and spot deer that way. Its a lot of walking but I've seen a lot of game that way.

 

[gutshootem]

I feel your pain. Google earth is way big...

Forget the whitetail strategy. Sitting saddles out here will get you a nap.
Look for blocks of public bordering private, get landownership chip and hunt those boundary lines covering a ton of ground and glass. Optics and boot leather is how I find mule deer.
Passing up younger bucks is how you find big mule deer.

Any legal road on blm or state can be driven on by truck or atv. Order the blm map of the area you pick. If it shows a road and is legally accesable you can drive it. Many times the roads will be land locked by private so you can't legally drive in but if the section has a legal county road touching it you can walk in. Those are the section I focus on.

I have had shady things go on with BM properties out there. I would not waste time on those.

You will need a stove in late November. Camp in a burnt section and bring a chainsaw. Lots of dead timber around in a few areas. Some areas have no wood so pick your camp spot with that in mind.

And lastly, dont gutshootem

Thanks Steve.
I have a pair of 10X42 diamondbacks that are gonna have to get me through this year. I'll also be picking up a Razor 15-45x65 spotting scope. Just need to decide on angled or straight and a tripod now.

I also have a regional chip for my garmin that I used in WY a few yrs ago so that's covered.

Thanks for confirming that the roads in MT are just as confusing as the ones in WY. Should I anticipate seeing gates on public land with private property signs there as well? Also, is it legal to drive an atv on blm off of the road or do they need to stay on marked roads? Since I really don't have experience scouting for mule deer via Google earth, I'm just trying to focus on areas that are only accessible by foot and don't want to hike all the way back in somewhere just to have atvs rolling through.

 

[gutshootem]

I few things:

- Be more prepared for cold than for warm. Can be down to -40 during the time frame you mention.
- 12x12 tent will be good for 3 guys.
- Check the MTFWP website around August for a map which shows all the enrolled Block Management properties enrolled to hunt that year. I've had many great experiences in the past on BM properties. But plan on hunting BLM and state land too.
- If you see non county roads crossing private and BLM, assume you can only drive them until the point where they cross private, after which your not allowed to go further. Being your first year, you will surely hike a few miles in and cross a two track or three that cross private and public. These are roads that the locals, BLM and trespassing non-locals made. Its a pain in the ass to hike for miles to come across this type of stuff, but its all part of the process. It takes years to get acquainted with an area.
- Like Steve said, don't try and hunt funnels and saddles. Just hike, and glass, or set up early and late on a high spot and glass. The most productive thing for me has been to slowly walk the edges of coulees and jump shoot and spot deer that way. Its a lot of walking but I've seen a lot of game that way.

This is what I was looking for.

Thank you sir.

 

[Mthuntinfool]

ATV's are "supposed" to stay on the road, but often times they don't. if you are camping on BLM, you are allowed to drive 100 yards off the road to set up camp as well.

 

[406LIFE]

I'll share this nugget with you:

If this is your first time coming to MT, and you haven't looked at BMA's from 2016, then you should. They dont' change drastically, year to year. Some may be on, some not, but at least they will give you a starting point. There are a lot out there. If you decided to hunt in say, Bozeman area, and BMA 1, 2, and 3 are on your list to scout and you have done all your digital stuff, but when you arrive, #2 isn't a BMA anymore, then NP. Just go to 1 and 3. If I were coming that far and paying as much as you do for tags, I would have 15 plan B's. There is contact info for most of the BMAs on their PDF from the MTFWP website, call them up and ask how guys did this past year, what they think next year looks like, if they still plan on being it, etc. I think you could glean lots of good info doing this.

 

[SteveE]

The law is no atv's allowed off designated roads. You will see ranchers driving all over the landscape checking cattle. Many of the roads you are seeing will be landlocked so no vehicle access other then landowner. Dont worry too much about four wheelers messing your hunt up. Some areas are full of them but most are not.

Block management in the SW of region 7 is different. Personally it was a waste of time for me. Maybe it has gotten better.

Spotting scope is essential imo. Get a tripod that has angle adjustable legs - it helps the setup on steep terrain a bunch. Those without angle adjustment are useless out here.

Good luck to you guys!

 

[rogerthat]

I am going to build a little on what SteveE has provided. The law for recreational driving on BLM lands and state lands is different. For BLM lands, recreational vehicle access would be allowed on established roads and trails so "Open unless designated Closed". For recreational vehicle use on state lands, roads are "closed unless designated open". Designated open roads on state land will usually be signed. A quick call to the local DNRC office can clear up whether you should be driving a road on state lands while hunting.

 

[phutch30]

There is a difference between established and designated routes. Just because its an established road/trail doesn't mean its open to travel. Stick with the designated route. I'll add that for some stupid reason BLM has different signing stipulations for designated routes. Where I work (for the BLM) in SW MT, the open routes are signed open all others are closed. In the eastern offices they are open unless signed closed. I suggest getting a FS map rather than a BLM map. The BLM maps generally don't show open and closed routes. The FS maps do. GPS chips do not distinguish open routes from closed routes.

 

[antlerradar]

It is good that you are willing to hike back in. I would look for a good vantage point and plan on getting there before shooting light. You are almost certain that you will see fewer hunters the farther you get from the roads, but in SE MT getting as far from the roads as possible does't always result in better hunting. This is especially true during the rut. This is why.

There is not that much ground that is more than a mile from a road in SE MT. The result is that hunters that are willing to walk get concentrated in a relatively small amount of land and the hunters that do hunt the roadless ground are much more successful hunters than the crowds of people driving the roads. One of the best draws I know of on the Custer is hidden only a 400 yard walk from a main road. Hundreds of hunters drive by that draw every year, very few put much time in hunting it.

A hunter with a good set of legs can get to just about anywhere on the Custer in two hours of walking. A buck looking for does may cover that distance in less than a half hour. Road hunting during the rut can be fairly effective. Just not my idea of fun.

There is a reason that there are not any roads. Roadless places are often rough, water poor and low productivity . I like the rough part, the water part not so much. About ten years ago there was an article in Montana Outdoors titled Does are from Venus, Bucks are from Mars. The cliff notes of the article is that does like the more productive land and bucks tend to live in the less productive. Road less places are often doe poor and during the rut bucks will leave to be with the does. Back in the 90's the best place for me to find a good buck in the summer was on a big ridge well off the road. That ridge is as rough as it gets and very little water. During the summer I would often see up to twenty bucks feeding on the sumac. I very rarely would see does. If I found a buck I wanted to hunt I needed to get him in the first or second week of the season or he would be gone to places unknown.

If you are happy with any buck and plan to hunt the rut you need to hunt where the does are. Does are often concentrated on private land agriculture fields. Steve's advice of hunting public close to private is sound. If you are looking for a top end buck, well that is a whole different game. Good luck

 

[schmalts]

I feel your pain. Google earth is way big...


Any legal road on blm or state can be driven on by truck or atv. Order the blm map of the area you pick. If it shows a road and is legally accesable you can drive it. Many times the roads )

Be careful what you call a legal road. A two track through state will get you a hefty fine. You cannot drive through many state sections.