If you voted for Trump with on the basis of public access.....you were dead WRONG!!

[Northwoods Labs]

Yadayadayada, what did you think the TRCP would come out and say? Maybe that they love Trump and everything he's doing, LOL! The two places he decreased yesterday should have never been as large as the two previous Presidents made them since they didn't follow the intent of the AA. If we only listened to the Native Americans we'd probably have every square inch of land from shore to shore under the AA designation since just about all the land any of their ancestors set foot on is considered sacred land to them!

Pretty lame end to your post. When you have to insult others your argument loses a lot of luster. I live right near a reservation, show some respect

 

[u1299]

Got my tinfoil hat on.Is the sky falling again???So next year,according to some on here,there will be very little hunting access due to all the natural gas and oil rigs.Where have I heard this before.Oh yeah,on here by the 3 or 4 same liberals that can't get over the fact that Hillary was unelectable.
So tell me if they want to start drilling or extracting natural resources don't you think there would be town hall meetings and ways to fight it.I think that's already been done too.
I didn't vote for Trump on his public land policies,and I didn't worry about Hillary view on it either.There's way more important matters that need to be taken care of in this country then for me to worry about and oil rig here or there on federal land.In my lifetime,I will NEVER have to worry about having federal land to hunt on.I'm way more worried about the liberal gun grabbers aka,Hillary, then I'll ever be about an oil rig that helps keep our country independant.You'd think you 3-4 liberals are riding around in a horse and buggy.Chances are you use way more energy then I do,yet hate how they have to get that energy.The reality of what happened is we lost nothing.It's still all federal land and all huntable.Let us know when that changes

In your lifetime you will never have to worry about public land to hunt on? You can thank the 3 or 4 liberals you reference for that, you’re welcome! Oh and nice to see you’re concerned about what future generations have to hunt on instead of just worrying about yourself.

 

[Northwoods Labs]

TU"s Chris Wood on President Trump thus far: "We now stand about a year into President Trump's administration, as of yet there is no discernible conservation agenda that has been articulated by the administration."

Pretty sound statement if you ask me. Kudos to Trout Unlimited for not mincing words

 

[MTGomer]

Bears Ears and others are already on the decline.
Whether We mine it, frac it or attract tens of thousands of littering yuppy rock climbers to place their hardware all over the rocks and leave their broken IPA bottles and Subaru mufflers behind, the place’s golden years are behind her.
This area is already all over the news and social media and there is not shortage of people ‘advocating’ for it by turning the formations and cultural artifacts into props for #instaselfies
I hope we never have to have this fight with any administration over UMRBNM, so Patagonia and crew doesn't have to come ‘save’ us.

Exhibit A

 

[onpoint]

Sad fact is for those that take (what it took a lot of hard dedicated work by those before us) this very stuff for granted - no disrespect intended but understood if taken that way - they, and all of us, may well be the "new Indians". If ya don't get, you probably can't.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

Pretty lame end to your post. When you have to insult others your argument loses a lot of luster. I live right near a reservation, show some respect

Unfortunately, this topic and others related seem to bring out some very lame comments across the board.

I can understand some may FEEL these monuments are a display of the AA being abused. However, feeling that way does not in any way make it factual. Only interpretations by the courts will make something definitive. To state otherwise as fact is simply being close minded.

I really don't care if others agree with me or not. I can agree to disagree, and perceptions and beliefs are nothing more than our life experiences and biases affecting what we see. Further, a signature indicator of an open mind is the ability to listen to other's opinions without feeling the need to insult them.

Except of course, anyone thinking Nikon binos are better than Zeiss Classics. That's an alternative fact.

 

[Straight Arrow]

So next year,according to some on here,there will be very little hunting access due to all the natural gas and oil rigs.

Mixedbag, from where did you pull that?

I'm way more worried about the liberal gun grabbers aka,Hillary,

Mixedbag, again from where did you pull that? There are not many, if any, of us here who support Hillary at all, but you seem enamored with continuously referring to her and some supposed gun rights threat.

...then(sic) I'll ever be about an oil rig that helps keep our country independant (sic).

Again lacking basis or logical reasoning. There are certainly no oil rigs on national monuments presently "keeping our country independant(sic)" .... but there are many on other lands and furthermore many other lands not as special which are ripe for energy resource extraction.

BTW, it's the military members, the veterans on here and their predecessors who have and will keep our country free and independent.

 

[Northwoods Labs]

Exhibit A

View attachment 77619

Not sure what your main argument is. You knew that many outdoor companies and more left leaning outdoors groups would be up in arms about this. If anything the review process caused these monuments to be "loved to death" as you say, not the original designation.

 

[onpoint]

"except of course, anyone thinking Nikon binos are better than Zeiss Classics. That's an alternative fact".

I'm disappointed. Never did I specifically state anything was better than another.
I hope for better reading comprehension from you, as apparently it is suspect......

 

[tjones]

But all you have is ALOT OF NOTHING,and pointless bashing.Go to a bar and run your mouth.I come here to talk hunting

Got my tinfoil hat on.Is the sky falling again???So next year,according to some on here,there will be very little hunting access due to all the natural gas and oil rigs.Where have I heard this before.Oh yeah,on here by the 3 or 4 same liberals that can't get over the fact that Hillary was unelectable.
So tell me if they want to start drilling or extracting natural resources don't you think there would be town hall meetings and ways to fight it.I think that's already been done too.
I didn't vote for Trump on his public land policies,and I didn't worry about Hillary view on it either.There's way more important matters that need to be taken care of in this country then for me to worry about and oil rig here or there on federal land.In my lifetime,I will NEVER have to worry about having federal land to hunt on.I'm way more worried about the liberal gun grabbers aka,Hillary, then I'll ever be about an oil rig that helps keep our country independant.You'd think you 3-4 liberals are riding around in a horse and buggy.Chances are you use way more energy then I do,yet hate how they have to get that energy.The reality of what happened is we lost nothing.It's still all federal land and all huntable.Let us know when that changes

I’ll just leave these quotes here.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

"except of course, anyone thinking Nikon binos are better than Zeiss Classics. That's an alternative fact".

I'm disappointed. Never did I specifically state anything was better than another.
I hope for better reading comprehension from you, as apparently it is suspect......

Keep that up and I'll change my mind to invite you on a blue grouse hunt in the Snowcrests.

 

[MTGomer]

Not sure what your main argument is. You knew that many outdoor companies and more left leaning outdoors groups would be up in arms about this. If anything the review process caused these monuments to be "loved to death" as you say, not the original designation.

My point is that there is not a wild place on this earth that was ever made better by increased publicity, museums, corporate advocacy, tens of thousands of trust fund millennials using sacred cultural artifacts for photo ops after a day of leaving their climbing gear in the rocks, or tour busses full of Chinese.

Can you imagine if someone, representing a major corporation like the north face came and said they were going to save the upper Missouri River breaks by building something like this in Geraldine?
These are some of the most rural places in this country and that’s what makes them so great.

Being up in arms and ruining the place with commercial development like an education center and everything that goes with it (parking lot, restrooms, plumbing, power lines, paved roads, a coffee shop, etc etc) have nothing to do with one another.

I agree that the ultimate responsibility lies with those who started the review, but the reaction from some couldn’t hardly be more self defeating.

Durfee Hills in Montana are a good but smaller example. The Wilks threw the first punch and those who cared about it( myself included) spoke up and the Billings Gazette ran with it, worded some headlines poorly and flaunted the size of the elk herd. We kept it, but it will never be the same.

 

[onpoint]

I’ll just leave these quotes here.

You realize you are making some assumptions here...............

 

[Irrelevant]

I've been changing my tune on this move over the last several weeks (knowing that it was coming in some form). I was very against it for a long time. But I'm buying less and less into the slippery slope idea that if it loses monument status it's only a matter of time before it's either completely tore up for oil rigs or sold to private developers. There's certainly a line in the sand to be drawn I question if this is where it should be drawn.

MTGomer your comments ring very true in my experience. The more people know about an area the more it's abused. And while it's easier to limit access in a recreation area (monument) than a strip mall, that's not necessarily true for oil fields. At some point that oil will run out and the land will not be on anyone's radar on nature takes it back over (think old homesteads). I have found I don't enjoy NP at all. State Parks even less. Wilderness areas are hit and miss (mostly hit on weekdays and miss on weekends). Wilderness study areas seem to be the pinnacle of awesome. No one knows about them and those that do won't put forth the effort to visit them.

 

[onpoint]

But I'm buying less and less into the slippery slope idea that if it loses monument status it's only a matter of time before it's either completely tore up for oil rigs or sold to private developers

As this thing has kinda gone allover the place, while kinda staying on the same topic, this sentence caught my attention.
Interesting how a large contingency on here would doggedly fight anything viewed as a slippery slope when it comes to a 2'nd amendment issue. Yet when it come to public land issues, the same will willingly dismiss any type of raising an alarm as chicken little type stuff.
2'nd amendment stuff has one of the most - if not currently most - powerful lobbies in America.
Public Lands issues don't enjoy this luxury.
I'll leave any remaining contributions to this conversation to the more masochistic types..........

 

[Deleted member 20812]

It's still all federal land and all huntable.Let us know when that changes

A 2000 acre Hutterite stubble field enrolled in Block Management is just as huntable as the neighboring Missouri Breaks Monument. I think we could all agree that there are varying degrees of enjoyment associated with each, even though one is just as huntable as the other. The condition and development (or lack thereof) of the associated landscape DOES matter, not just to hunters but more importantly, to the game we are hunting.

onpoint,

Very good point (see what I did there?). Trump too, shall pass, and hopefully the damage is minimized.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

Pretty lame end to your post. When you have to insult others your argument loses a lot of luster. I live right near a reservation, show some respect

That was not intended as an insult when I spoke of the Native American. I have great respect for them and am glad to see they're taking millions of dollars a day from the white man in the casinos they run, as it's about time the way we screwed them over that they get a little back! No, it was just MHO that they consider all land sacred and I guess maybe if we did too we would manage it much better than the way we do.

 

[BigHornRam]

I've been changing my tune on this move over the last several weeks (knowing that it was coming in some form). I was very against it for a long time. But I'm buying less and less into the slippery slope idea that if it loses monument status it's only a matter of time before it's either completely tore up for oil rigs or sold to private developers. There's certainly a line in the sand to be drawn I question if this is where it should be drawn.

MTGomer your comments ring very true in my experience. The more people know about an area the more it's abused. And while it's easier to limit access in a recreation area (monument) than a strip mall, that's not necessarily true for oil fields. At some point that oil will run out and the land will not be on anyone's radar on nature takes it back over (think old homesteads). I have found I don't enjoy NP at all. State Parks even less. Wilderness areas are hit and miss (mostly hit on weekdays and miss on weekends). Wilderness study areas seem to be the pinnacle of awesome. No one knows about them and those that do won't put forth the effort to visit them.

Good comments. Here is a piece of industrial timber land that's had the piss logged out of it and is ruined forever.





Takes a little effort to get to and few people make the effort. The grouse hunting really sucks so I wouldn't waste my time hunting there. Same for deer. Nearby wilderness areas have a ton of traffic. Takes all the pressure off these types of unheard of areas and that is fine with me.

 

[375H&H]

There are a lot of western mining reclaimed lands that look similar as above in regards to "raped", holding elk, mule deer, antelope, and sage grouse.

This thread is exactly why healthcare reform didn't get passed, republicans don't support other republicans which I have yet to wrap my head around. The best is the enemy of the better.

 

[u1299]

There are a lot of western mining reclaimed lands that look similar as above in regards to "raped", holding elk, mule deer, antelope, and sage grouse.

This thread is exactly why healthcare reform didn't get passed, republicans don't support other republicans which I have yet to wrap my head around. The best is the enemy of the better.

It’s called having a mind of your own 375, I was taught that as a youth growing up.