How to stay away from horses in a nat'l forest

[The Hedgehog]

Hire a helicopter, I hear that works....

"How to stay away from horses in a nat'l forest"

You can't land a helicopter in a national forest.

 

[Miller8812]

"How to stay away from horses in a nat'l forest"

You can't land a helicopter in a national forest.

No need to, just slide down the rope.

 

[MN Public Hunter]

No need to, just slide down the rope.

Exactly...lol

 

[Dinkshooter]

From what I've seen, the majority of them never get off their horses to actually look around and hunt. I don't think they ever see much other than the back of the horses head. But like Greenhorn said, I know a couple that do and man they are deadly.

 

[barefooter19]

I can tell most of you guys don't hunt off horses !! I hunt elk every year on horses and can go higher, faster, up nasty places easier than any human ! If I get into elk I tie them up and go hunt. If I kill one I 1/4 it, hang it and go get the horse and head home. As far as trails go if it wasn't for horses the trails would disappear. Horses keep the trail dug out and people can follow them with ease, but a horse doesn't need a trail. Not many places a horse can't go. If you see horse trailers parked don't get mad just realize there is another hunter in there with a better, faster, less tiring mode of transportation than what you have. Soon as I turn this computer off I am going to saddle up 2 horses and my wife and I are going to hit the wilderness for the day just to ride and look around.
PS... Kill an elk in no mans land and you will wish there were some guys with horses around !!

 

[BlakeA]

I can tell most of you guys don't hunt off horses !! I hunt elk every year on horses and can go higher, faster, up nasty places easier than any human ! If I get into elk I tie them up and go hunt. If I kill one I 1/4 it, hang it and go get the horse and head home. As far as trails go if it wasn't for horses the trails would disappear. Horses keep the trail dug out and people can follow them with ease, but a horse doesn't need a trail. Not many places a horse can't go. If you see horse trailers parked don't get mad just realize there is another hunter in there with a better, faster, less tiring mode of transportation than what you have. Soon as I turn this computer off I am going to saddle up 2 horses and my wife and I are going to hit the wilderness for the day just to ride and look around.
PS... Kill an elk in no mans land and you will wish there were some guys with horses around !!

Like Greenhorn said, you are probably in the .5% of horse hunters. Most guys that I have encountered on horses couldn't walk 100 yards. Also, I disagree with you on "I can go higher, faster, up nasty places easier than any human" and "not many places a horse can't go". I would love to see you and your horses navigate 2000+ vertical ft up through blowdown in the dark in a place where no horse trails exist. There are ALOT of places a horse won't go and if it does it will end up staying there as a carcass.

Are horses an asset in the right situation? Absolutely. Will they extend a guys elk hunting career due to failing health and age? Yes. Do they make you more lethal than guys on foot? No, and that is laughable.

 

[Flatland Crusoe]

I'm pretty sure that hunting horses are like hunting dogs in that for every 1 really making a difference on the mountain, there are 5 or 10 that are family pets being chased around the parking lot and being more headache than useful.

Horses aren't really that much faster than a fit and well equipped mountain hunter on foot, certainly not to the point guys in a vehicle can outrun someone walking, they might be 50% faster than a fit hunter walking. If a horse is really beating you from point A to B you either need to get faster, leave earlier or camp closer. As mentioned, most people I see hunting on horses are not usually that physically capable or willing to cover ground on foot once a horse delivers them to a location. I've also seen very few horse hunters leaving camp in the dark, they seem to show up mid morning where they should have been before sunrise.

I don't particularly like horses, but I've never had any issue working around them or them really being a thorn in my side while hunting. In a perfect world horses would deliver a motivated hunter to a backcountry location fresh and extended the huntable range of a guy on foot because the packout becomes quite a bit easier. In reality I see horses creating more work at camp and their additional weight hauling capacity is often squandered on canvas tents and cast iron skillets.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

I can tell most of you guys don't hunt off horses !! I hunt elk every year on horses and can go higher, faster, up nasty places easier than any human ! If I get into elk I tie them up and go hunt. If I kill one I 1/4 it, hang it and go get the horse and head home. As far as trails go if it wasn't for horses the trails would disappear. Horses keep the trail dug out and people can follow them with ease, but a horse doesn't need a trail. Not many places a horse can't go. If you see horse trailers parked don't get mad just realize there is another hunter in there with a better, faster, less tiring mode of transportation than what you have. Soon as I turn this computer off I am going to saddle up 2 horses and my wife and I are going to hit the wilderness for the day just to ride and look around.
PS... Kill an elk in no mans land and you will wish there were some guys with horses around !!

Let's count to 10 and breath, sloooooowly......

No one said horses can't go places faster than a human. I hunted and packed with horses for 10 years. They can be a boon or a bane, or both depending on a myriad of factors.

The majority of horseback hunters I've witnessed were nothing more than organic road hunters, my father in law included. You sound like you do it differently and probably have more success as a result.

No, horses don't absolutely need trails, but most people riding the horse do. As to whether trails would disappear without horses, that's a dubious claim. I will 100% agree that horse riding clubs do a great deal of trail maintenance.

If I see a horse trailer, I just plan on hiking where I can pretty much guarantee most folks won't go.

Hope you had a great ride.

 

[The Hedgehog]

Like Greenhorn said, you are probably in the .5% of horse hunters.

Nope.

 

[npaden]

I was going to argue the point on whether horses were faster or not, as there are a few trail races that allow both humans and horses but the horses are faster on those trail races.

The Western States 100 mile endurance run started out when people started running the race without a horse. The horse race is called the Tevis Cup and in 1974 a guys horse was hurt so he decided to try and see if he could finish the 100 miles without his horse. That has evolved into one of the premier 100 mile trail races.

The record for the Western States 100 mile endurance run is 14 hours and 48 minutes for a human and for a horse running the same trail in the Tevis Cup race the record time is 10 hours and 46 minutes.

Looking back through the years though in 2003 the winner of the Western States was 16 hours and 1 minute and the winner of the Tevis Cup (a horse) was 16 hours and 23 minutes.

Of course that is a well maintained trail that they are running/riding on. If you swapped that out for some point to point orienteering type racing the human might have a better chance. There is no doubt that a human has the advantage when it comes to climbing over and under blowdown.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

I was going to argue the point on whether horses were faster or not

It's certainly not hard and fast. I had a black paint horse who could reliable travel 4-4.5 mph down any trail. A pretty comfortable pace for me is 3-3.5 mph on a good trail.

Add some steep up and down and the quality of the horse will greatly affect the comparison. More than once, I've either passed and/or kept up with horse hunters.

 

[Elkmagnet]

I think the benefits of horses speek for them selves. But there are some drawbacks/limitations. It's not always as easy as jumping off and going for a hike

1. Some don't do well tied out in the woods for a whole day (add the smell of a predator and good luck)
2. Sometimes in sage, brush and grass there is nothing to tie to when you want to walk.
3. Horses can be hard to separate from one another while on the mountain and are noisy as hell doing so.
4. they are noisy
5. Getting up at 3am to feed, load, trailer and saddle by daylight. (a hiker could be miles ahead if he got up at 3 and was hiking by 3:30)
6. Horses definitely have limits on where they can travel. Some more than others but anyone who disagrees has never tried to ride cross country in the Frank Church with snow on the ground.
7. Riding horses is a lot more dangerous than walking.

 

[Elkmagnet]

Wife after 3hr of below 0°

.5%ers this year

Horse refusing to walk across a frozen stream

 

[Lawnboy]

In a perfect world horses would deliver a motivated hunter to a backcountry location fresh and extended the huntable range of a guy on foot because the packout becomes quite a bit easier. .

This is the way I've always felt about mine. But as was mentioned it sucks to have to get up an hour and half earlier to catch, saddle and load when you can be hiking and cover a ton of ground while a guys fighting with his horses. On the flip side of this whole topic, I always just felt like I would be able to go in deeper and farther than the average foot guy and then get off and hunt. Of course a guy in shape can get anywhere I can on a horse. I know full well there are bugling elk I'm riding past in the dark that a foot hunter is going to hold up on and hunt. The mountains are big enough for everyone but if you're foolish enough to turn around just. because you see my horse trailer in the parking lot then I can't help you. I can't tell you how many times I wished I didn't have my horse because I wanted to loop around a basin and just walk out a ridge in the evening back to the truck but I can't because I have to go back and get the dang horses. Everything has it's pros and cons. Hikers hauling a bull out on there back are going to wish they had a horse for the trail and the horse guy is going to wish he could just go bivy over on some bugling bulls in a nasty canyon with no trails. Now if my dads along he'll just take them back and I'll meet him at the truck and I get the best of both worlds.

 

[squirrel]

What you do is take the most useless inbred hillbilly llama you can grab for free. (so when he gets shot you arent out very much) walk him about 50 ft past the t/h and tie him right next to the trail. Now this will not stop all the horses but the ones who aren't spooked will be being ridden for half the day chasing those who went wacko. Then the obligatory trip to the ER to stitch up some head wounds from going through branches at mach 10 in the dark...

I was once deep in WY backcountry and yelled at an approaching guy on horseback with one pack horse behind. "I HAVE LLAMAS" Thanks he yelled back "but its ok i have a good horse" Well... he had ONE good horse. His pack horse was about ten degrees of rotation from giving him a Pamela Anderson waistline when he just managed to slip off the tag line from his horn, then they went by at about 35 mph and were last seen a mile down valley tearing through the twelve foot tall willows as if there was a trail , and there was not. Not sure how that turned out but it did not look pretty, cowboys say a lot of bad words when stressed.

 

[Wisconsinhunter]

PS... Kill an elk in no mans land and you will wish there were some guys with horses around !!

Speaking for myself, and only myself, I want the long, tiring grind of a pack out. The struggle is part of the experience for me. My last trip out ended with 6 or 7 hour pack out with a big old brute of a black bear. It wasn’t even my bear, but it was one of the best experiences of my life. I want to do that with elk meat, whether there are antlers to go with it or no antlers.

Either way, my original post was not intended to talk crap about horse hunters, I was simply looking for ways to better my odds of harvesting an elk.

 

[JWhunter]

You're right elk magnet horses are noisy but, trust me elk and deer aren't as afraid of a horse as they are people... The sounds humans make don't occur in nature a horse walking around is a natural noise.

 

[The Hedgehog]

I want the long, tiring grind of a pack out. The struggle is part of the experience for me.

I'd prefer the experience of sliding one whole into the back of a truck, quickly followed by cracking open a can of beer.

 

[Elkmagnet]

Speaking for myself, and only myself, I want the long, tiring grind of a pack out. The struggle is part of the experience for me. My last trip out ended with 6 or 7 hour pack out with a big old brute of a black bear. It wasn’t even my bear, but it was one of the best experiences of my life. I want to do that with elk meat, whether there are antlers to go with it or no antlers.

That's all well and good until it takes 6-10hrs to hike in and 10-15 to carry a load out x 3 to 5 loads. In this case the honeymoon period only lasts a day or two. Then any sane person would gladly let a horse do the work.
You have some good advice on this thread I doubt you will have much trouble if you follow it.

 

[Elkmagnet]

You're right elk magnet horses are noisy but, trust me elk and deer aren't as afraid of a horse as they are people... The sounds humans make don't occur in nature a horse walking around is a natural noise.

I've harvested a lot of things from foot and horse and I have to say it doesn't seem to matter once an animal knows something is out of the ordinary (a few shod horses clip clapping their metal shoes down a trail or screaming at each other from across a canyon as the are being seperated) I believe my odds of success with a bow start going down hill quite fast. Obviously I have seen exceptions but I think that is just something horse guys say to themselves to keep from giving up.