"Genetics"

[EliAGrimmett]

My Dad and I were talking about how our ranch hunts in NM work and were thinking about how to figure out which bucks are the ones with potential to grow larger horns in future years and which bucks were already at their max horn growth.

I have no idea how to know which is which. Are there any biologists who may know what to look for?

Let's say we have a ranch with 3 tags and we have 4 bucks that should all score exactly 85 inches. If they're all equally beautiful in the hunters eyes, which buck should we leave standing to breed and to potentially grow larger in the future?

Would it be a heavy type buck? A long one? One with big prongs? Should the buck be wide? Narrow? Should it have a lot of knots and bumps on the horns? Should it look young? I really don't know if I could even tell the difference between a 2 year old buck and a 3 year old buck, though.

I do have a lot of photos from one year to the next, but just from memory, I don't notice any patterns emerging. I'll have to dive into those pics a little more thoroughly to see if anything emerges.

What does everyone think?

 

[npaden]

On deer you would think that you could actually affect future antler growth by being selective about which animals are harvested, but when it is all said and done, study after study shows that you really can't affect genetics on free ranging deer. And it is much easier to identify the genetic potential on a male deer in my opinion than on a pronghorn. Age is a huge factor for deer and based on the few studies I've seen on pronghorn that doesn't seem to be the case.

To add to the problem, females provide at least 50% of the genetic makeup of the animals and there is no way at all to tell which female is churning out the biggest bucks so that side of the equation is completely out of our control.

So when it is all said and done, my personal thought is that you can't control genetics in a free ranging herd of deer, and probably not on a free ranging herd of antelope either.

So to your question on which one to shoot, I guess the ones that offer the best shot.

That's my 2 cents.

 

[belly-deep]

study after study shows that you really can't affect genetics on free ranging deer.

I don't know if that is totally true. In some of the draw units in Utah, they are winding up with a ton of 3x4s and 3x3s because the average joe thinks a 26" 4x4 is a better buck than a 28" 3x3. It seems in those units that hunter pressure has changed the genetic make up of the deer herd. Thats not to say the good genetics could not resurface with a change in management policies.


It seems to me that if you had two 85" antelope, it would be better to shoot the older one because his horns didn't grow as fast. But I don't know if that is actually the better way to go about it.

 

[npaden]

I don't know if that is totally true. In some of the draw units in Utah, they are winding up with a ton of 3x4s and 3x3s because the average joe thinks a 26" 4x4 is a better buck than a 28" 3x3. It seems in those units that hunter pressure has changed the genetic make up of the deer herd. Thats not to say the good genetics could not resurface with a change in management policies.

You might be right. I'm primarily referring to research studies done on a much smaller scale (10,000 acres is one of the studies I'm thinking of) and it might be possible if you were looking at a much larger area with consistent application of harvest criteria. I don't know of any true research studies done on a larger scale due to the logistics involved in establishing a control environment to give credibility to the research.

Most of the studies I've read on the subject are whitetail deer studies as well where fewer does may be bred by a single buck than mule deer. Another big issue is that very often the dominant buck that does the breding often is not the one with the biggest antlers remaining. Some bucks are lovers and some bucks are fighters!

 

[LuckyMike]

I think saving the one you feel is the youngest makes the most sense. Who knows, he may grow into a 90-incher. Which would be great genes to spread around.

 

[Duck-Slayer]

have them shoot smaller one's that year and find out the next and which ever of the 4 that don't grow much shoot them... I think that antelope mature at a much faster rate than deer, most are fully mature by 3 years of age...
Matt

 

[Moosie]

You asking what buck to shoot is like Warren Buffet asking about money advice.... But I love the answers.

 

[wyoming556]

To add to the problem, females provide at least 50% of the genetic makeup of the animals and there is no way at all to tell which female is churning out the biggest bucks so that side of the equation is completely out of our control.

.

Maybe the does with the biggest horns have something to do wtih it.

 

[dmandoes]

hey eli; my memory sucks. do you get to manage your ranches to let the best buck live to breed?

 

[EliAGrimmett]

Eh...sorta. But not really. It all kind of depends. If we have, let's say, 3 hunters and only 3 big bucks, then we have to hunt those 3 bucks. If we have 5 or 6 big bucks then we can try to pick and choose which bucks might have the best genetics for breeding and let them live another year. But again, we're still at the mercy of our hunters. If the hunter wants to hunt a particular buck, regardless of whether or not it's one that we want to live, then we will hunt that buck. So, the short answer is...sometimes we get to and sometimes we don't. In a perfect world we would have 10 giants bucks and only 2 or 3 hunters. Then we'd really get to be choosey over what we take and what we don't. That would be sweet, but unfortunately there usually just aren't that many big bucks to go around.