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Fun in the sun at what cost?

ELKCHSR

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Off-Road Vehicles Rev Up Controversy
A Coalition Of Former Public Land Managers And Veteran Rangers Is Sounding The Alarm

Quote

"These things are just crawling all over the place, unregulated, damaging the environment and wreaking havoc — there's no teeth in any law enforcement."

Jim Baca, of Rangers for Responsible Recreation

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

Off-road vehicles now pose the single biggest threat to America's public lands and represent a fast-growing law enforcement problem.

That's the verdict of a new coalition of former public land managers and rangers, which has formed to bring attention to the problem.

Understaffing, weak penalties, and lack of enforcement of trail restrictions, among other problems, have led to environmental degradation and an increasingly chaotic environment at many popular federal recreation areas that are overwhelmed by the sheer numbers of off-road-vehicles (ORVs), the coalition says.

"These things are just crawling all over the place, unregulated, damaging the environment and wreaking havoc — there's no teeth in any law enforcement," says Jim Baca, a member of the Rangers for Responsible Recreation coalition and a former director of the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) under the Clinton Administration. "Congress needs to look at this and make sure public land agencies are doing their job."

BLM officials acknowledge the rising numbers of ORVs, but insist the problem is under control.

Use of ORVs is legal on designated roads and trails across more than 80 million acres of land overseen by the BLM and millions more overseen by the U.S. Forest Service. But ORV use, especially in the western United States, has zoomed off trails into fragile areas, growing far faster than public land managers' ability to police it, the coalition says.

National growth numbers are hard to come by. But the most popular areas risk being overrun, a BLM spokesman in Washington acknowledges. One popular BLM-run recreation area, Imperial Sand Dunes in California, has ORV visits soar to 1.2 million each year, BLM officials say. Both the BLM and U.S. Forest Service are taking steps they say will reign in ORV infractions.

Indeed, conflicts, sometimes violent, appear to be growing between rangers and ORV users who flout trail signs and damage delicate desert and other habitat, or lug alcohol and drugs into wilderness areas, the group says. But a BLM spokesman says law-enforcement incidents involving "off-highway vehicles" (OHVs) actually fell from 5,846 in 2004 to 5,066 last year.

"We realize there has been exponential growth in OHV use, so we know it's a challenge. But we think we're meeting the challenge," says Tom Gorey, a BLM spokesman.

Yet the problem is clearly growing more serious in many locations. At an Easter weekend gathering, 50 federal rangers faced "near riot conditions" with about 1,000 out-of-control ORV enthusiasts at the Little Sahara Recreation Area in Utah. Revelers sexually harassed a number of women among the 35,000 people using the area, federal reports of the incident show. There were 300 arrests and 37 injuries.

"What has been lacking is the assurance of tough enforcement and the backbone needed to bring the runaway problem under control," said Jim Furnish, former deputy chief of the U.S. Forest Service and a member of the rangers' coalition, in a statement. "Folks visiting our public lands expect enforcement that protects natural resources, ensures visitor safety, and reclaims a family friendly atmosphere."

As numbers grow, the environmental challenge is growing, too.

At the Tellico Off-Road Vehicle Area within the Nantahala National Forest in North Carolina, ORV use has been allowed to soar beyond planned limits, critics say. Now, deeply-rutted trails wash silt into once-pristine trout streams that feed into the Tellico River.

In a "notice of intent" letter last week, the Southern Environmental Law Center informed the U.S. Forest Service it would soon file suit on behalf of several trout fishing organizations to enforce the federal Clean Water Act. The letter says that trails close to streams violate the law.

Enthusiasts of ORV riding say the problem nationally is due to a lack of adequate mapping and signage on public lands to show users where to ride, and that new forest service and BLM rules are addressing it.

But as numbers grow, broader rider education efforts are needed, they acknowledge.

"We recognize there are issues with OHV use on public lands," says Jack Welch, president of the Blue Ribbon Coalition, which represents off-road enthusiasts and vehicle manufacturers. "We believe most of these problems can be solved with better signage and map programs. But we also think the ranger group is not really interested in working together with us — they simply want to eliminate motor recreation on public lands."

Coalition members deny they are just out to eliminate motorized vehicle use, but say they want the ORV problem brought under control.

Penalties that are severe enough to deter violators are badly needed, such as forfeiture of hunting and fishing licenses or confiscation of vehicles when off-roaders are caught ignoring the law, they say. A larger budget for more rangers to enforce the law is also required, they add.

"Land management agencies just don't have a lot of enforcement capability right now," Mr. Baca says.
 
The BLM rules in most of Oregon (as I undertand it) say that it is ok to ride wherever you want. You don't have to be on a trail. You can just ride over any bush, brush, tree, grass, anything. I think that needs to change.
 
I ride utility and sport quads (rode dirt bikes when I was a kid) but don't really see any negatives to this activity except for the rioting/harassment that happens (per the Little Sahara report in UT) -- but I don't know how you deal with idiots that act that way, unless you confiscate their rides. :D

I know there was an incident like Little Sahara over here at Sand Mountain, NV. One weekend some girl scouts were selling cookies and a BLM officer came in and shut them down - there was a pseudo-riot and the crowd threw rocks, etc. at her rig and she had to come back with reinforcements.
 
I enjoy riding quads. For the most part, though, we ride them on dirt roads on private property or in the dry river bed that gets washed out every time it rains. Any tire marks or ruts we make are gone with the next rain, and there are no plants there that we are destroying.

I agree that they should be restricted to dirt road use or designated areas.
 
I totally agree with an established trail system, but the downside is increased tax dollars to pay for the management/creation of them. Before I moved to NV, I lived in OR and there were trails galore on both the west and east side of the range, motocross parks, maps for established trails, etc. Here in NV, they tell you to stay on trails but the trail system here sucks for the most part. Moon Rocks has a decent trail system but they could use some maintained tracks! :D
 
One big downside of trail systems is that all too often they lead to more unauthorized trails in places they really shouldn't be. A new trail system allows one to get to a certain drainage not accessible before, but now that it is why stop at the end of the trail...
 
Jose must be sick... this is his favorite subject,,,1pt they do have some nice atv trails in southern Utah... they have this one huge loop... southwest of Otter Creek and everyone stays on the trail....those are good Mormons down there... got to love them.:)
 
Again - you cannot outlaw something just because some idiots abuse the situation. It's like outlawing guns to prevent crime. Instead, make the fines susbtantial enough to both discourage abuse and repair damage by that abuse. Rather than a little fine, make it a $5000 fine or larger if you take your vehicle off the established road or trail system.

There are several state or federal offroad areas in socal. There are camp grounds there for fee use and a daily use fee, I believe. Those fees help maintain the place, and since ATV'ers also pay taxes, I have no problem with "some" tax money being spent. The ideal situation would be excise taxes on the vehicles and an increase in registration fees to pay for the offroad areas.
 
cjcj- I know of a lot of problems with a lot of those 'nice' atv trails. Not everyone is staying on the trail, religious affiliation aside...
 
I know of a lot of problems with a lot of those 'nice' atv trails. Not everyone is staying on the trail, religious affiliation aside

Then it's your duty to get out their and start catching these dirt bags

I'd like to see you doing some thing about the issues you complain about on this board instead of sitting around bitching about it

Time to quit being such a baby!!!

Stand up and do some thing about it... :rolleyes:
 
Elkcheese,

You really are clueless.

For starters, its not pointers "duty" to go out and catch ATVers breaking the law. That falls on the BLM and FS Law Enforcement Officers.

I wont speak for Pointer, but as Professional in a similar position, I'd assume that his work load is pretty heavy actually completing the "duties" he's assigned to.

Try taking some of your own advice there Junior. Instead of trying to criticize pointer for "complaining" about this issue...why dont YOU do something about it.

Maybe instead of whining about government employees you could write your congressionals and ask for increased BLM and FS budgets for enforcement. Most districts are lucky to have ONE LEO...many LEO's are "zoned" between 2-3 districts. Its impossible to control thousands of miles of trails with one LEO. Its equally impossible and unpractical for people like myself and pointer to spend time trying to "catch" illegal atvers while trying to complete all other assigned "duties". If pointers situation is anything like mine, he's likely attempting to complete the work of 2-3 employees with budgets stretched to the breaking point.

Besides all that, Pointer can likely do nothing more about illegal atvers than any other citizen. All we can do as Federal Employees is turn them into our local LEO's. But, like I said, with such a thin line of LEO's out there, I doubt it takes priority over more serious criminal activities on Federal lands.
 
There he is again...

Big brother Butz to the rescue... go back on the porch boy, it's ok, I promise not to hurt him... ;) :)

No need to spell it out or spoon feed any one here Butz, take a breath, close your eyes and count to ten, your gonna hurt yourself :eek: :D

Oh, by the way, remember one of my monikers as of late, I can always put it back in just for you... :D

I'll remind you... :)

Now that I'm older I thought it was great I seemed to have more patience
Turns out I just don't give a shit! :D
 
Elkcheese,

I can see from your lack of knowledge that you dont and cant have a decent discussion about the topic of ATV's, illegal trails, and what to do to correct the problem.

Since thats the case, maybe its best you dont waste everyones time with your idiotic finger-pointing blaming other people for "not doing anything" about it.

In particular when the people you are blaming work in the Natural Resource field and have done more to enhance, protect, and better our public lands than 99.99% of the citzens in the U.S...and unquestionably have done more in one week dealing with resource issues than you'll do in your entire life.
 
I think the root of the issue centers on how kids are raised. Among other things, I was taught not to use something if it wasn't mine. If I wanted to, I needed to ask the owner. And if I couldn't find the owner or the owner said no, forget it and move on.

I understand that going to the same riding location over and over gets stagnant, especially if you memorize the trail system or just get bored with the place altogether. But, going other places and alternating riding locations is one way to solve that. I know it takes time and costs money, but I think a decent, established trail system is awesome for law-abiding citizens -- it keeps you busy for a long time with plenty of variety. Perhaps a volunteer system, managed by the land owners/keepers (BLM, etc.) is a viable solution...volunteers could propose new trails, close existing ones and even create them if given the green flag.
 
In particular when the people you are blaming work in the Natural Resource field and have done more to enhance, protect, and better our public lands than 99.99% of the citzens in the U.S...and unquestionably have done more in one week dealing with resource issues than you'll do in your entire life.

billtoon_e0.gif
 
First off, Buzz is right, it is not my duty to catch these folks. But, FWIW I have on more than one occasion provided pictures and locations of illegal ATV use to the proper folks in our office. We have two rangers for the 3.2 million acres of BLM within our office boundary. They can't be everywhere, but they do spend most of their time in/around the areas with the largest amount of ATV use. Also of note, is that the large trail systems in UT and Little Sahara are outside of my office boundary. Thus I don't spend anytime in those areas for work and nearly none in those areas on my own time. But, I do know some of the issues facing the land managers in Central and Southern UT in regards to ATV and other types of motorized recreation. In fact, the UT chapter of Society for Range Management dedicated a whole semi-annual meeting to this very topic two years ago, of which I did attend.

That said, most of my work time for the last two years has been spent doing other tasks to improve management on BLM lands. This includes collecting vegetation inventory data for over 120,000 acres, with another 60,000+ acres to come this summer. Working on a land use plan admendment that allows for greater management flexibility and is more in tune with the times than the previous one that was completed in 1980. I have also been involved with the planning and implementation of fire rehab or fuels reduction projects on over 70,000 acres. That's just a bit of what I've been up to...

Elkchsr, would you care to share what you've been up to for the last two years that is of importance? I hear they're still making cookies in Ogden, so you work is still being appreciated...
 
First off, Buzz is right, it is not my duty to catch these folks.

Yes Tyler, it's your duty just as it is the rest of ours to do the same

Butz the Putz complains the law enforcement has no teeth or don't have the time to do the work given so it's our duty to help if needed where we can

Of course you can turn a blind eye to the wrongs you see because some one else is paid to do it, then get on here and complain about it

I'm glad your finally doing the tax payers work, thats what you've been after all along and if your covering that much ground, I would hold you more responsible than most because you have more opertunity to do whats right and proper beyond what a paycheck offers

Besides, I'm betting you didn't pick up all that acrage by yourself...

We can all say we've accomplished great things, does it make your dick bigger, maybe I doubt it...that activity just shows how small you can be

I have never seen Miller touting his greatness, he shows it with pics of other things he sees which are quite enjoyable to share with the rest of us

Yes, I suppose people are enjoying the cookies that the plant I helped put together created, but thats then, this is now

To what end, to show every one you can pass the buck as well as Butz the Putz can?

The Ozone must be leaking again... I think we're having another meltdown of the Iceburg

Sorry Oscar, if your talking about me it aint happenin

Butz the Putz's misreadings of the postings are way off (he just doesn't walk on water as much as a bunch of people here would like to think), if you want a show, I suppose I could put one on, it sure pissed a lot of people off the last time we went there... ;)
 
Of course you can turn a blind eye to the wrongs you see because some one else is paid to do it, then get on here and complain about it
Try reading a bit closer next time. Like the second sentence that I wrote.

Only posted what I've been up to the last few years to show that I am very busy with things much more important than off trail ATVs. Of which, I've helped out with as well, which you didn't seem to understand the first time I wrote it...

Try to get out of the sun a bit...
 
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