Drop chart for 280AI

[BuzzH]

I think you are way underthinking this.

Maybe he's got a perch he wants to hunt that could include a 600-700 yard shot. Those are certainly doable with good equipment and some practice. He didn't post asking how far folks are reluctant to shoot at..

Yes, and also even though I know I don't have to dial say...at 300 yards with a 250 yard zero, if I have the time, I still do it. Nothing beats POA/POI intersection...holding over or "high" on animal sucks.

 

[Durango Mike]

I think you are way underthinking this.

Maybe he's got a perch he wants to hunt that could include a 600-700 yard shot. Those are certainly doable with good equipment and some practice. He didn't post asking how far folks are reluctant to shoot at..

Well maybe it is just me, I have shot long range in the west at BP shillouette matches at the NRA range in Raton, with open sights consistently hitting rams at 500 with my Ballard 40-65, off sticks prone, 600 with an M1a so I know you can hit targets, we have gongs out at 800 at one of the ranges I use and have hit them with my 308 Norma consistently. I would just point out that at 700 you have less than 1000 ft pounds of energy with the combination he is using at 600 about 1300 ft pounds, elk are not target practice. I have spent alot of time riding in the back country and have found too many carcasses of elk that wandered off to die from cross canyon shots that no one followed up on. I thought we were discussing performance of a particular cartridge combination for long range elk hunting and having shot at least 10 elk with that combination I was offering an opinion based on experience. I am new to this forum and see you have 7000 plus posts so you are obviously someone who has alot to contribute, all I have is what I have personally experienced and what results from autopsying 400 plus head of game.

 

[The Hedgehog]

Well maybe it is just me, I have shot long range in the west at BP shillouette matches at the NRA range in Raton, with open sights consistently hitting rams at 500 with my Ballard 40-65, off sticks prone, 600 with an M1a so I know you can hit targets, we have gongs out at 800 at one of the ranges I use and have hit them with my 308 Norma consistently. I would just point out that at 700 you have less than 1000 ft pounds of energy with the combination he is using at 600 about 1300 ft pounds, elk are not target practice. I have spent alot of time riding in the back country and have found too many carcasses of elk that wandered off to die from cross canyon shots that no one followed up on. I thought we were discussing performance of a particular cartridge combination for long range elk hunting and having shot at least 10 elk with that combination I was offering an opinion based on experience. I am new to this forum and see you have 7000 plus posts so you are obviously someone who has alot to contribute, all I have is what I have personally experienced and what results from autopsying 400 plus head of game.

Wow. Impressive resume. I guess I spend too much time posting and not enough time "riding in the back country." I've never once found a carcass I could confirm was due to a cross canyon shot and not being followed up. You must be like a back country Quincy MD. I also can's say I've actually "autopsied" any head of game. You win.

But hey. Where in the actual "F" did the original poster say he was going to hunt elk? This is the Ammunition and Reloading forum, and he's target shooting/reloading.

Thanks for sharing your ultimate wisdom in the field of elk cartridges, ethics, forensics, and general overall badassery.

 

[The Hedgehog]

To the original poster : You using the 4DOF program?

 

[Durango Mike]

Greenhorn you are right, I assumed from the posts that he was planning a hunt at 8,000 feet and was heading west as was stated a few times. This being a hunt forum I thought that was a reasonable assumption that ballistics and bullet performance went hand, I have been appropriately schooled. I have had an experience where we recovered a wounded elk shot from across a canyon at 5-600 yards when the hunter never made the effort to climb across to see what happened. I always want to see how bullets performed and almost always track the entry/exit path and try to recover bullets when I can, and have collected a bunch over 55 years of big game hunting. By the way the best test medium I have found is wild hogs and Nilgai if bullets hold together well they usually work on Deer and Elk. I got interested in this forum because I admired what I saw Randy doing on public land hunting, his ethical shooting standards, and from the posts I read it was something shared by everyone. Obviously my comment on your number of posts somehow set off something that was unintended, an opinion about what I would do is not a put down on what someone else is capable of at long range, I just know my limitations and what my equipment is capable of under actual mountain conditions. That said, I am interested in what cartridges you prefer for game versus targets, i see alot of people on the 6.5 bandwagon with berger bullets at our local range sighting in for first rifle elk, any experience with that?

 

[The Hedgehog]

That said, I am interested in what cartridges you prefer for game versus targets, i see alot of people on the 6.5 bandwagon with berger bullets at our local range sighting in for first rifle elk, any experience with that?

I've used a 6.5 for elk and may likely be doing that next week for elk. Not bergers, but a similar bullet. I haven't been to a shooting range in years, and rarely shoot targets so no input for you there.

6.5- range under 100 yards each elk, under 10 for one.

 

[The Hedgehog]

I would just point out that at 700 you have less than 1000 ft pounds of energy with the combination he is using at 600 about 1300 ft pounds, elk are not target practice. I thought we were discussing performance of a particular cartridge combination for long range elk hunting and having shot at least 10 elk with that combination I was offering an opinion based on experience.

Your energy math is not correct.

Feel free to share a few photos of the 10+ elk taken with the 280 and 155 grain bullet..

 

[Drake4]

My 280AI has 1935 ft pounds of energy at 600 yards. 1773 ft pounds at 700 yards.
If memory serves correctly, I shot this elk at right around 600 yards. Cross canyon even. He died...but what do I know.

 

[The Hedgehog]

@Drake4 I suggest changing your userID to Unethical Bastard

 

[MTLabrador]

My 280AI has 1935 ft pounds of energy at 600 yards. 1773 ft pounds at 700 yards.
If memory serves correctly, I shot this elk at right around 600 yards. Cross canyon even. He died...but what do I know.

View attachment 154983

Even my plain vanilla .280 Rem is still above 1500 ft lbs out to 750.

 

[Durango Mike]

I was using the Nosler chart for the 150 grain partition, what bullet? I took the data from the Nosler trophy grade ammo I bought when they had a sale to get some brass with the correct headstamp. Excellent accuraccy, but they showed 2052 fps at 600 with 1308 ft pounds. My guess is the bc of the less aerodynamic partition slows it down at long ranges as the bullet you are using retained velocity is higher even though the Nosler clocked 200 fps faster at the muzzle. Nice bull, if you are confident in your ability and have the nice target of a broadside bull great work. I note the flight time of 3/4 second and you need to be sure he is indeed stationary. Frankly i am much happier when someone who can shoot uses a caliber they are intimately familiar with and shoot alot, having worked a few elk camps in Colorado i dred seeing the guy who shows up with a 338-378 weatherby and a recently healed scope cut! I have had good luck with the 150gr Swift Sirraco, but never shot one beyond 200 yards, probably worth checking what the stats are on that.

 

[MTLabrador]

what bullet?

Don’t know if that was intended for me, but a 143 Hammer hunter, 3060 at the muzzle. I didn’t shoot the elk in the post I quoted and I’m aware of the flight time. I’ve never killed an elk over 400 yards and most have been under 150.

 

[The Hedgehog]

having worked a few elk camps in Colorado i dred seeing the guy who shows up with a 338-378 weatherby and a recently healed scope cut!

What did you dred less - the adult man with an Ultra Mag, or teenage girl who takes selfies, and tots a 6.5?

 

[The Hedgehog]

Also, @Durango Mike - Is the .284 Win an adequate long range elk cartridge? Given you're shooting a precision bullet such as the 162grain Amax.. asking for a friend.

 

[Addicting]

StrelokPro app and a Magnetospeed, then shoot to confirm. Published MV is not actual in your rifle. Using a chronograph at 20’ is not MV. The 20-40 FPS loss makes a difference at longer ranges. Make sure you are as close as you can be with your entry data. A 1/2” high or low at 100 will throw everything off at 600. I have found junk numbers in equals junk numbers out. The app puts it into a nice excel sheet that is formatted nicely to get taped to the stock.

I verify it at 500 and edit the spreadsheet for the .5 MOA it’s usually off.

 

[Durango Mike]

You Kidding! I love taking teenagers and girl who can shoot what she brings accurately, listens when you make a suggestion, enjoys everything she sees in the mountains and gets really excited to hear bugling bulls! Most of the southern CO outfitters are seeing their clientele aging out and not many father/daughter/son parties. I teach concealed carry classes and the women are terrific it is the manly men who can be a pain in the ass. My wife says if it involves a steering wheel or a trigger too many men think they know everything! Besides I can learn something from the girl as I have never taken a selfie. I still have a box or two of 30-378 Weatherby in the ammo locker left behind a guy who borrowed my wife's 270 to shoot a nice 5 by 4 that he was thrilled with for a first elk, the Weatherby was uncomfortable to shoot even with an extra pad off the bench. I offered to send it to him and he had already sold the rifle when he got home.

 

[Durango Mike]

Also, @Durango Mike - Is the .284 Win an adequate long range elk cartridge? Given you're shooting a precision bullet such as the 162grain Amax.. asking for a friend.

My thought is yes, but with factory ammo don't try to stretch it too far. I never owned a 284, but I built a 6.5 /284 wildcat with an Ackley 40 degree shoulder and shot a few deer with it back in the early 70's, thought the rebated head was cool way to utilize a short action Sako with a shot out 22-250 barrel. My recollection was that the 284 was mainly used in the lever and pump guns Winchester made for a while, it was very underloaded with 160/175 gr bullets because of the short magazines. If it is in a bolt gun you usually can get the 150-160 gr bullets handloaded into the 2850 plus area which would be fine medicine for elk with good bullets. I wish I never traded away the Sako now that Norma makes brass it would be a sweet light mountain rifle. I have not seen a box of 284 ammo in many years!

 

[Durango Mike]

By the way I am sending a 24 year old gal on a mule deer hunt in November with a 7mm mauser built back in the 70's on an old winchester action. With 140 gr Nosler partitions she has gotten comfortable shooting it and it weighs under 7lbs with everything. Plenty of medicine for mule deer, and the recoil is so mild even for a lightweight rifle she has no issue shooting 20-30 rounds practicing having fun, constantly hitting an 8 inch gong at 200.I have no doubt she could kill an elk with that combination. The Barnes bullets were unavailable back then so the Nosler was my option, never worked up a load with newer bullets and powders, I have found the Barnes are very sensitive to previous gilding metal fouling and have not done a super cleaning on this rifle to try them.

 

[Durango Mike]

I've used a 6.5 for elk and may likely be doing that next week for elk. Not bergers, but a similar bullet. I haven't been to a shooting range in years, and rarely shoot targets so no input for you there.

6.5- range under 100 yards each elk, under 10 for one.
View attachment 154948
View attachment 154949

great bulls! My best ones are from AZ and NM, CO is selling too many tags and it has hurt the quality. WY or MT?

 

[mtmuley]

Not often we see GH around these parts. He should come by more. mtmuley