California Deer

[Nameless Range]

Thanks ishootdasmallones. Those are some things I've never really looked at when it comes to California. They have an interesting season structure for their units:

https://nrm.dfg.ca.gov/FileHandler.ashx?DocumentID=122279&inline

I guess my (false) perception came from the population of California. 39 million people. That's 35 times as many as Montana, and sometimes Montana woods can seem crowded.

 

[MT_elk]

Thanks for sharing. Great looking deer! Congrats.

 

[Rancho Loco]

Hey, I pig hunted once with an old guy that moved to MT, know'em?

He's not that old.. And still hella sexy. When you moving out here?

 

[BOWUNTR]

I lived and hunted in California for 50 years.... I call BS on those deer numbers. CFW des not do deer counts, those numbers are made up with nothing to support them. I challenge anyone to try and prove me wrong. Ed F

 

[Rancho Loco]

jeez, and he calls me old..

 

[Rancho Loco]

I do miss hunting these sneaky bastards..

 

[HighDesertSage]

I lived and hunted in California for 50 years.... I call BS on those deer numbers. CFW des not do deer counts, those numbers are made up with nothing to support them. I challenge anyone to try and prove me wrong. Ed F

I don't. Think about how much country is involved here. San Diego to Yreka. I have no problem believing these numbers. Curious what led you to this conclusion?

 

[orarcher]

I remember back in the day ( late 80's ) northern Ca. area around Chester I literally would see 20+ bucks every day leading up to archery season and even during season I would see multiple bucks per day. Too bad I sucked so bad back then cause I could have had some brutes on my wall.

 

[Arrow_slinger]

I'll sum it up briefly for the non residents: if you want t kill a bear, blacktail or the rare tule elk, it's great. For everything else, I'd go elsewhere.

Edit: I live in CA

 

[Zach]

There goes the neighborhood...

Where's the abalone diver?

 

[Arrow_slinger]

There goes the neighborhood...

Where's the abalone diver?

Changing diapers! Heart you!!!

 

[BOHNTR]

CA DF&W has not completed deer counts in years........and historically there has been no mandatory hunter harvest survey where data is used to include in their estimates......those deer numbers are truly unverified and unreliable.

 

[BOWUNTR]

I don't. Think about how much country is involved here. San Diego to Yreka. I have no problem believing these numbers. Curious what led you to this conclusion?

I have hunted from San Diego to Yreka for 30 years. I'm not that old.... There is no doubt deer numbers in most areas are declining, so without some type of surveys and reporting system how could CFW know? Every state I know of does surveys to base their tag numbers and harvest on.... Ca does not. They don't have the money or resources. Throw in an unhunted, unchecked Mountain Lion population and growing Black Bear population. They recently eliminated hound hunting and the Black Bear harvest is less than half of what it used to be. Two deer limit does not help and quite a few rifle hunts are during the rut.

I'm not a biologist but that 500,000 estimate has been their estimate for a very long time. 511,871 that's how precise they think they are. I doubt they have a clue. Like I said, I challenge anyone to prove me wrong. I'm not trying to stir the pot, just calling BS on that population estimate. Ed F

 

[HighDesertSage]

CA DF&W has not completed deer counts in years........and historically there has been no mandatory hunter harvest survey where data is used to include in their estimates......those deer numbers are truly unverified and unreliable.

I have hunted from San Diego to Yreka for 30 years. I'm not that old.... There is no doubt deer numbers in most areas are declining, so without some type of surveys and reporting system how could CFW know? Every state I know of does surveys to base their tag numbers and harvest on.... Ca does not. They don't have the money or resources. Throw in an unhunted, unchecked Mountain Lion population and growing Black Bear population. They recently eliminated hound hunting and the Black Bear harvest is less than half of what it used to be. Two deer limit does not help and quite a few rifle hunts are during the rut.

I'm not a biologist but that 500,000 estimate has been their estimate for a very long time. 511,871 that's how precise they think they are. I doubt they have a clue. Like I said, I challenge anyone to prove me wrong. I'm not trying to stir the pot, just calling BS on that population estimate. Ed F

Straight from CA Fish and Wildlife's website:

"Each year CDWF biologists estimate deer numbers in California using a computer model that uses harvest numbers along with survey data. Harvest numbers come from harvest reports submitted by successful hunters and data collected from meat locker records. Survey data is collected by field biologists by aerial and ground surveys in the fall and spring. Estimates are computed for each zone and on a statewide basis to provide information for developing tag quotas for the upcoming hunting season."

So, are they lying then? Am I confused? Because it sounds to me like the do put forth some effort into that number. I'm not trying to stir the pot either, but from what I understand, they do complete field surveys and review harvest statistics.

 

[BOWUNTR]

It must be true then... Government propaganda is what that is. California is famous for that. "meat locker records" that's funny.... Believe what you want, I've never in all my years heard of or seen and aerial deer survey done by CFW. The aerial sheep surveys are funded mostly by WSF... or they would not be conducted, that's a fact. Harvest reports were not mandatory. It's hard for me to believe that California has deer numbers that rival Colorado (424,190), Idaho (465,000), Montana (445,000)... Ed F

 

[jryoung]

The black bear is not "less than half of what it use to be". The first year of the ban the harvest dropped 45%, the next year (2014) it increased 33% from the prior year. That said, a 1,700 bear quota on a population of 35,000 is going to "manage" much.

 

[BOWUNTR]

Sorry... should have said "close to half". Anyways, I'm just a hunter... who doesn't believe that California has a prosperous herd of over 500,000 deer.... that's all. Ed F

 

[HighDesertSage]

It must be true then... Government propaganda is what that is. California is famous for that. "meat locker records" that's funny.... Believe what you want, I've never in all my years heard of or seen and aerial deer survey done by CFW. The aerial sheep surveys are funded mostly by WSF... or they would not be conducted, that's a fact. Harvest reports were not mandatory. It's hard for me to believe that California has deer numbers that rival Colorado (424,190), Idaho (465,000), Montana (445,000)... Ed F

So you believe that CAFW intentionally lies to the public? I do believe there is a lot of unfounded hostility toward CAFW. They didn't take away hound hunting for bears or lion hunting. The people of CA voted on and approved those measures. I was a resident of CA when the hound hunting for bear and bobcat went to vote, and I distinctly remember CAFW was opposed to it.

Also, if we are talking about mule deer and blacktails, the 2015 population estimates are 436K for CO, 297K for MT, and 282K for ID. You can find this information on the state wildlife agency's websites. Unless they are full of it as well.

Also, here is an interesting article put out by the mule deer working group that gives a great state by state summary:

http://www.wafwa.org/Documents and ..._Black-tailed and Mule Deer Status Update.pdf

 

[BOWUNTR]

I guess I asked for it. I usually keep my mouth shut on these things but I'm sitting here drinking my coffee... I never bashed CFW, their hands are tied and getting worse every year. Look up the definition of "propaganda". Government does it all the time... My numbers came from the last issue of Bowhunter magazine for total numbers of deer in those states, which Ca's numbers are combined as well. Here's another interesting article. http://www.deerfriendly.com/deer/california/long-term-trends-in-california-s-deer-population Here is a chart from that article up to 2012. Based on this chart and CFW's population estimate.... things are looking good for California's deer herd as they are on the upwards trend.... not... Ed F

 

[BOWUNTR]

Oh yeah, sorry to help with derailing this thread. Those are some outstanding Ca bucks. Congrats again... I know a few of those guys. My last post on this... I have to hurry and get to work. Ed F