Big Game/Large Caliber lever action

[Europe]

guys ,slight diversion

under 100 yards--big bears--45/70 --the last I remember was a 405 Woodleigh bullet ---- what are you using today ?

The Win 71 s are getting expensive. As mentioned the BLR needs trigger wrk but are nice rifles. Love the 99, in smaller calibers, have no experience with them in the large caliber

Why the 444 instead of the 45/70.? What is the heaviest bullet weight that shots well out of a 444 ? who make it ?

Appreciate alll the help, thank you

 

[BrentD]

Europe,
I use this, https://www.buffaloarms.com/452-420-grain-paper-patch-1-cavity-flat-base-bullet-mould-jim452420, but probably not what you would be looking for. However, there are a few dozen, dozen excellent cast bullets, and I would opt for any of those over the jacketed, expensive bullets which really are unneeded in a .45-70.

I have no idea what a .444 does that a .45-70 can't. .45-70 will be easier to source all components and loaded ammo.

in the FWIW column, a Marlin of any flavor will be easier to scope that most models of Winchester lever guns, should that become and issue. Also, Marlins are far simpler and easier to work on, replace parts, and tune things like triggers.

The only down side to a Marlin is that when they started making nominal "1895s" out of 336 actions, I heard of multiple instances of receiver cracking between the barrel threads and the magazine tube. It gets thin down there, but the 336 is a much lighter action than a square bolt 95.

 

[thusby]

I am shooting Buffalo Bore 300 grain JFN out of my .444 right now. 45-70 and 444 are pretty close in performance, either one will kill anything on the continent.

 

[Europe]

Brent. 444 vs 45/70 is the only difference the fact that you can get larger weight bullets for the 45/70 and that they can be found in more places ???

Scope--probably use peeps, but your right, especially the 71

1895 out of 336 actions---when did that start ? possibly buy used rifles that pre date this ?

thank you

 

[JV842]

The simple reason I shoot a 444 vs a 45/70 is that it’s what my old man gave me!! And as far as the 99, I know it’s not “preferred” but my great grandfather rolled over plenty elk, bear, n deer when he used to guide in Colorado w/ 180grn silver tips

 

[FLS]

A Marlin 1895 in 45-70 is capable of handling any animal in the world with proper ammo.

 

[Europe]

The simple reason I shoot a 444 vs a 45/70 is that it’s what my old man gave me!! And as far as the 99, I know it’s not “preferred” but my great grandfather rolled over plenty elk, bear, n deer when he used to guide in Colorado w/ 180grn silver tips

My family have enjoyed the 99 for a long time. still have the 250. We never had a 358 or 375 and therefore I cannot recommend it. I have hunted with a fellow in years past that had a 358 and he loved it, used it for everything.

My initial assignment was to evaluate the "Ridge Runner", but as we moved forward the project has expanded . For close work on things that can bite and claw the 45/70 is looking good. Some things have now been eliminated like the WWG, simply because of their asking price . I was told they make a point about the fact one can also shoot a 410 in their 45/70 and my response was I never liked he 410 (-;

thanks again everyone, appreciate the information

 

[Guy]

Went back to the 45/70 Marlin 1895 this year, after ten years without a big bore Marlin. I do like the platform and the cartridge. Mine is a new production rifle, not a JM. It shoots quite well but isn't quite as nicely finished as my earlier JM Marlin was.

I've got mine set up with a compact 2.5x Leupold, only about 8 ounces. Had a Williams receiver sight on an earlier one. This scope is mounted in QD rings and the factory sights are fine for me at modest range.

Right now I'm using 350 grain RNSP Hornady bullets handloaded over IMR 3031. They have a good reputation, though I haven't taken game with them. In the past I tried quite a few different bullets and was very impressed with the 425 grain "Piledriver Jr" by Beartooth Bullets. Many bullet choices exist. I'll have my Marlin with me in the Cascades soon, hunting black bear.

Regards, Guy

 

[VAspeedgoat]

I realize it's splitting hairs between a 45-70 and a 444 but if you look at leverevolution ammo, the 444 has a flatter trajectory which in my mind makes it a point blank gun to 250 yds instead of 200 like the 45-70. I realize this isn't it's goal so I have to say the 45-70 probably gives the most options. I still like the .325 but it sounds like bore size is more desirable then kinetic energy. Brent has to be smiling when he reads that statement. Ha

I once read an article that studied energy and how bullet shape and size affects how it it distributed to game. I wish I knew where I read it or who wrote it. Anyone here have any insight?

 

[wytex]

How about a Rossi/Puma 454 casull ? If you can find one they are not bad rifles, we have 2 of them.

 

[BrentD]

Europe, you know the real answer is to simply buy whatever Panda Bear uses. She's the one that's been there, done that. A lot.

 

[Panda Bear]

Brent, I like the Win 71 348 and it certainly is capable of handling anything I hunt. Mine do get beat up and some of the Win 71 s now on the market are pretty nice, plus the cost is still going up . I love the BLR, but if leaving the 71, I am leaning toward the 45/70. But it has been awhile and this thread plus other material that had been sent my way has been very informative. The 325 WSM actually has merit and I have ask those who reload for me about that caliber---but again it is a BLR, so probably not.
Wish someone here had a Ridge Runner and therefore an opinion of it. This thread was initiated by Europe as research for someone else, but it has certainly benefited me. Maybe they will buy a Ridge runner and bingo I have someone to talk to about it

 

[BrentD]

PB, I have owned a BLR and you will never catch me saying a kind thing about them. Even if I were blind I would know it was ugly and it handles - well it doesn't handle. Feels like aiming a posthole auger.

There are Marlin 95s and Winchester 86's made in .45-90 if you want more bang for the buck. I am guessing that your rifle is closer to an every day tool than an on-again, off-again hunting rifle, and I would think you would want something fairly small and light and easily transported. But lever guns really have pretty massive actions for their respective cartridge sizes, so they are not easily fit into that description. That said, Marlin did make 95s in a light weight version. They would not be cheap however. I know of exactly one such rifle. Not sure what it would take to pry it loose from the owner, if he hasn't sold it already, but probably not cheap.

Of course, I'm am positively allergic to buying rifles new these days. But anyone can buy an old rifle and fix it up, relatively cheaply. In the end, I think I end up with a superior rifle in many ways. Esp. in the realm of lever guns and older styles of rifles. My 95 Marlin was the failed relic of some Bubba's dream which I got for about $500. New wood and barrel and some misc. parts and I have a restored rifle for about $1000-1200 total investment. You could go that route too, if you are willing to shop around. Hunting for a rifle is a lot like hunting for moose. Might be around the next corner, so you gotta be ready to commit, but might also be a long ways down the trail too, so patience is often tested.

 

[Europe]

Brent, thank you, good post and information

I "think" I have found one for them to look at and hopefully use ( not Panda Bear ) so that will help. It has features that work, maybe. ( Ridge Runner ).

appreciate the help

45-90 ? that would get ones attention

 

[3855WIN]

38-55 is a wonderful round. 255 grain bullet, but low recoil. Buffalo Bore is the “hot” ammo for this caliber.

 

[tzone]

I asked this the other day of Panda Bear, What about the Savage 99 in .308 or whatever?
The 99 is a gun that I can't decide to love or hate. I don't own one. Sometimes I think I should.

I'm with you on that one. I've had a few and just can't warm up to them.

 

[BrentD]

Not a lever gun, but it would fill the moose-bear slot nicely - if you don't mind rifles that have dog legs growing out of their sides.

not mine, of course.
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=551939#Post551939

 

[deer_shooter]

I have a Marlin Guide gun in 45/70 with a 2x7 Leupold on it, the accuracy of this set up continually surprises. I keep thinking about a putting a peep on instead but the older I get the worse my eyesight gets so I have been second guessing that. For this side of the country I load up 300 grain Sierras fairly stout so it shoots relatively flat all things considered and absolutely flattens anything hit with it. That said if I were going somewhere where the critters were a tad bit more ornery, I would look hard at the 447gr Hammer bullets or 400gr Barnes.

 

[BrentD]

Peeps can help quite a bit with vision issues.

 

[elkduds]

For some years I have been watching for an experienced lever gun for the niche of a sub-300 yd elk stopper. It turns out the history, esthetics and handiness of some models have eclipsed the ballistic standard I initially sought. A recent example is my fading fascination w the Savage m99. Likely the most prescient lever design, yet every time I handle one my thumb relentlessly seeks the absent external hammer. The 99 is off my list.

Trying now to overcome a subjective aversion to the BLR. Accurate, incorporating the smoothest levering mechanism, chambered in a useful array of bottleneck cartridges, loading pointed bullets from a stacked magazine, the BLR even has a hammer to entertain my right thumb. It comes close to evoking the m94 carbine my dad handed me, to take my first deer. But it ultimately falls short, owing to made-in-Japan inauthenticity.